She Shoots She Scores 2013-03-29

[KnightDelight]

Q: What's the difference between an elephant and a gallon of milk?

No one says "Memory like a gallon of milk?"

[Boxilar]

Inter service rivalry can get pretty nutty. During one of the WW2 island hopping campaigns, an army artillery unit radioed that they were running short of 5 inch ammunition for thier guns. A Navy cruiser in the supporting flotilla had the same basic guns mounted as its secondary armament and could spare the shells. They sent the Army unit the extra ammo. When they informed the admiral in charge of the task group, they recived the terse query,
"Why give US Army 5 inch shells?"
The cruiser captain replied,
"US Army ally of US Navy."

(edited to fix the typos made with my smart phone)

[Fairportfan]

Q: What's the difference between an elephant and a gallon of milk?

No one says "Memory like a gallon of milk?"

Wow. I'm never sending you to the store for a gallon of milk!

[Fairportfan]

Inter service rivalry can get pretty nutty. During one of the WW2 island hopping campaigns, an army artillery unit radioed that they were running short of 5 inch ammunition for ruger guns. A Navy cruiser in the supporting flotilla had the same basic guns mounted as its secondary armament and could spare the shells. They sent the Army unit the extra ammo. When the informed the admiral in charge of the task group, they revived the terse query,
"Why give US Army 5 inch shells?"
The cruiser captain replied,
"US Army ally of US Navy."

In Korea, i believe it was, a Navy carrier group's zone of operations was a no-fly zone for non-Naval aircraft.

It also included a part of the most direct route back to base from a zone of operations belonging to the Air Force.

After issuing several progressively less-polite/more-irate warnings to that effect, the admiral commanding is said to have said during a meeting with his Captains "If one more Air Force pilot overflies our area - shoot him down - in a friendly fashion."

(There is a joke from that era, in which a dripping-wet Air Force pilot, standing rigidly at attention in the Admiral's cabin, answers a question put to him about what his CO might have said with "He also told me, Sir, that the Navy can't shoot.")

[zachariah]

Now Kathy was in the Air Force??? I am surprised. After the dig tramua I cannot see how the AF would even accept her as a recruit. Unless she was in before she went to college. That would make her in her late twenties at the dig site. SO it wouldn't have been that far in the past as we originally thought. Her career must have been in choppers as well. What she had Sali do is not common knowledge on how to power up and use the weapons system with the helmet.

The dig was twenty years ago.

Katharine is in her forties.

Word of God.

I can accept that but these facts do contradict it.

You can't join the AF before you are 18, you can but they won't let you go to basic until then. The minimum hitch is 3 years, usually 4, especially for the tech fields which chopper support would be. So 18 + 4 is 22. Then college long enough so a professor includes you in a dig? Minimum of three years and you better be an exceptional student to do that. 22 + 3 = 25, we'll assume Kathy was an exceptional student. So by those numbers it's only been 15 years since the dig? There is no other way to make those numbers add up. The alternative is that Kathy is 45.
The other option is she was a child genius and entered college at 15 or 16. She would then be twenty when picked to go on the dig. Might even be taking her graduate degree already. That would let her be twenty. But then how did she get into the air force? After the dig shoot out no doc would okay her joining up. The AF does do background checks on people who have access to sensitive information. The latest avionics on those birds would be considered such and she would have a Confidential clearance at least. That background check would find her treatment history and prevent them from giving her a clearance and make her unable to work in that field. So she could not learn about them.

See what I mean. Either way the facts do not support the dates. Usually Paul dates and facts hold together. So when a mismatch happens it makes me do the math. lol.

There is away but it assumes she was captured, brainwashed, and turned into a chopper technician for a terrorist group. I mean how likely is that? She's worth more as a hostage than a worker bee.

Anyone who can fit the times to the known facts please speak up.

[cmdrpowers]

I am not particularly surprised by the revelation that Kath was in the Air Force. If you look back over years of strips the hints are there (and its a testament to Paul's planning and plot).

As for Kath knowing how to work an Apache, while I was in the USAF (Vietnam era) I had plenty of opportunity to learn just about anything I cared to about anything military- and put some of it to use in war game design. Also, just as an additional point, the Library has everything (Everything!) ever written and I'm sure that includes the 'dash ones' for every aircraft and variant. Not that Atsali would care about that section, but it's a thought ...

[davids4250]

I think we really try to over-analyze what happens in the Wapsiverse. The minute details of how and why don't really matter. Paul tells (and illustrates) a good story, and I am happy to just hold on and enjoy the ride, whiplash and all.

[Kingmaker]

One question... Where did the original chopper pilot go and where are the MiB peeps?

[Boxilar]

I think we really try to over-analyze what happens in the Wapsiverse. The minute details of how and why don't really matter. Paul tells (and illustrates) a good story, and I am happy to just hold on and enjoy the ride, whiplash and all.

Ah, but it's fun to over analise. The math works out though. Assume that Katherine is 45. If she graduated high school at 18 that would put her leaving school and possibly joining the Air Force in the summer of '86. If she did a four year tour and left the AF the summer of 1990, that would have her matriculating for the fall semester of '90. If the dig was the summer of '93, that would mean she would be a Junior undergrad about to start her Senior year that fall.

I know I obsessed a bit about the Air force not flying the Apache, but I have to remember that the Wapsi universe is not our own, and that minor details may be different.

[Boxilar]

@boxilar

"Army"or "Air force" doesn't matter here I guess, since the MIB and The Library are, obviously, an entity on it's own.
Who knows what further hardware the MIB and The Library have available to them? Sattelites? Heck, an "undisclosed" module attached to the ISS.

*snip*

I was just being obsessive about the fact that if Kath served in the Air Force, and the AF didn't field Apaches, how would she know how to power up and operate the AH64 weapon systems. Hunting around answered my question. In most cases, the services consolidate training as much as possible. She likely would have learned to wrench on rotor birds at Ft. Rucker or one of the other Army helicopter schools along side Army chopper mechanics. Servicing the Apache likely would have been something she would have had an option to learn, as several folks have already pointed out.

[Atomic]

For what it's worth, the USAF provides weather support to the US Army, and that support works hand-in-glove with field operations. If Kat was a Weather Weenie (tm), her 4-year tour at an Army Air Cavalry base would easily have had her in close proximity (rides, tours, hey-let-me-show-you-something-cool) with every variety of helo on the airfield. As enlisted (taking college courses with Tuition Assistance), she'd have been a Weather Observer (forecasting school comes later), hob-nobbing with the maintenance crews and such. If she'd completed college with a BS in Meteorology or Atmospheric Science (before enlisting), she'd be in as a Wing Weather Officer (2Lt), hob-nobbing with the Warrants and other Officer Pilots, and for certain she'd have had a variety of introductory and operational flights. Plus, she'd be able to do some Graduate work in her spare time with TA as well.

Maybe Archeology/Anthropology was a minor and she focused on that while in the service. Somebody else can do the math.

(30 year Weather Weenie here)

[RunningBull]

We are assuming that shooting the other chopper was the point, right? Atsali has that look like that was the wrong button, either that or she's surprised that it actually worked.

[Mark N]

At first I was kind of wondering if Kath was being sarcastic about the Air Force and Atsali's memory.
To the peeps questioning why the choppers were unmanned and unguarded, this is a Brandi operation, the chess-master does not leave anything to chance.

[eee]

The more we learn about Kath, and see her in action, the more amazing she becomes. I wonder just what else she's capable of...

I also wonder where they got the rope Atsali was dragging as she flew to the copter, and what she's going to do with it. And what the plan is, once they disable the copters.

[sq_rigger]

Boxilar,

Regarding the US Navy sending shells to a US Army artillery unit--Army artillery in that period was 37mm, 57mm, 75mm, 76.2mm (AT only), 105mm, 155mm, and 208mm plus various recoilless rifle calibers. The US Navy had .50 cal. (12.7mm), 20mm, 40mm, 3" (76.2mm), 5" (127mm), 6" (152.4mm), 8" (203.2mm), 12", 14" and 16" guns and did not use recoilless rifles at all. Naval 5" (127mm) guns don't equate out to any tube size the Army had. It's more likely that the actual loan (if it occurred) was .50 cal ammo, as smaller Navy ships used Ma Deuces as AA batteries and the Army made extensive use of the same weapon as infantry heavy machine guns and as AA armament on trucks and AFVs. The unit requesting the ammo would probably have been an infantry battalion rather than an artillery battery, though.

[Atomic]

At first I was kind of wondering if Kath was being sarcastic about the Air Force and Atsali's memory.
To the peeps questioning why the choppers were unmanned and unguarded, this is a Brandi operation, the chess-master does not leave anything to chance.

Unless she meant to do that! heh heh heh... (wrings hands and smiles)

[cmdrpowers]

The more we learn about Kath, and see her in action, the more amazing she becomes. I wonder just what else she's capable of...

I also wonder where they got the rope Atsali was dragging as she flew to the copter, and what she's going to do with it. And what the plan is, once they disable the copters.

No rope, just a motion line as our junior bird girl darts out of the opening like the little sparrow!

Please remember Occam's Razor, folks. As for Brandi, you can just bet she's grinning like mad about now.

[Grantwhy]

If Sali does why did she carry the written notes? One telling should have been all she needed. But considering it's sali writing it down would be a good idea. lol.

You've been reading the last few weeks. Would you send Atsali out without written notes?

You could send her to the store for milk; she'd return with bananas and goats.

Q: What's the difference between an elephant and a gallon of milk?

mangling an old joke to get an answer here :-p

A: Milk does not leave footprints in the butter.

[Grantwhy]

I hate to be "that guy"' but only the Army operates the Apache for the US. The Marines still use the AH1 Cobra, and the Air Force is barred from using attack helicopters. There was a huge argument in 1947 when the Air Force split of from the Army. The AF argued that they alone could fly armed aircraft, while the Army countered that they needed armed helicopters. In the end, the Army can field rotor winged attack aircraft, while the Air Force only flies fixed wing combat aircraft. The Air Force gets a by on defensive armament like door guns. Of course, Kath may have served with the Israeli Air Force. They field Apaches as well.

(edited to fix the typos made with my smart phone)

hmmmm ..... silly question: Do the Army and the Air Force do anything like a 'pilot exchange program' ?

Is the any way a Air Force pilot could be loaned/assigned to the Army for a while?

In the end, the Army can field rotor winged attack aircraft, while the Air Force only flies fixed wing combat aircraft

So, the Air Force can fly helicopters, just not attack ones?


*edit* if Katherine knows how to fly the Apache, is the plan for her and Atsali to steal it? but if that was the plan, wouldn't she have gone with Atsali in the first place?

I'm guessing the next part of the plan is for Atsali to disable the Apache .....

..... so, if you are in the gunner's seat, and everything is turned on, what is the quickest/most effective way of disabling/grounding an Apache?
(without endangering Atsali)


ps: anyone else get the feeling the Atsali was supposed to disable the Black Hawk, not "BLAAMO" it to smitheries?

[DilyV]

I hate to be "that guy"' but only the Army operates the Apache for the US. The Marines still use the AH1 Cobra, and the Air Force is barred from using attack helicopters. There was a huge argument in 1947 when the Air Force split of from the Army. The AF argued that they alone could fly armed aircraft, while the Army countered that they needed armed helicopters. In the end, the Army can field rotor winged attack aircraft, while the Air Force only flies fixed wing combat aircraft. The Air Force gets a by on defensive armament like door guns. Of course, Kath may have served with the Israeli Air Force. They field Apaches as well.

(edited to fix the typos made with my smart phone)

I'd thought of the Israeli angle as well... It makes a wierd kind of sense too... She's in the dead sea area... bordered by Jordan on one side and ISRAEL on the other... All Israelis are required to serve... men AND women. Other than that, I can't see her being exposed to the Apache enough to know it's systems. As of desert storm, Women were just then being able to serve as Chinook pilots in the US Army as far as combat missions go. As has been said here before I believe, the US Air Force doesn't field the Apache so maybe she might have been some kind of weapon's system analyst or repair technician and had been exposed to it that way.