Grouchy Pants 2013-01-23

[Wapsi]

As I thought. Both Vamps plopped down on the floor. Hoping they can hold on to their "lunch"

By the by, a bit OT, but the link to the Wapsi Wiki got me to do some google-street-tourism. You know what? I found Tsillah's home. It's SO her..

check "18 Maple Place, Minneapolis" with streetview, turn around 180 degrees, and be surprised (or aghast, depending on one's color-sensibilities)

Check out 5121 Penn Avenue South, Minneapolis, Minnesota on the Google street view. It's smaller, more modest, and a complete patchwork. =)

[TlalocW]

Speaking of coffee... now that Monica is the Jaguar Girl, capable of traveling the world of the dead and talking with its residents (supposedly), what does this mean for our demon-infested barista? Could Monica find the actual Tina? Could she bring her back? Would Tina (soul) want to come? Would Tina (demons) give up their autonomy? Could Maya make another Golem with a lifespan for Tina (soul) to inhabit? Would she be demonless or get a new set to inhabit her? Why is one of my nipples bigger than the other two?

TlalocW

[Jay-Em]

As I thought. Both Vamps plopped down on the floor. Hoping they can hold on to their "lunch"

By the by, a bit OT, but the link to the Wapsi Wiki got me to do some google-street-tourism. You know what? I found Tsillah's home. It's SO her..

check "18 Maple Place, Minneapolis" with streetview, turn around 180 degrees, and be surprised (or aghast, depending on one's color-sensibilities)

Check out 5121 Penn Avenue South, Minneapolis, Minnesota on the Google street view. It's smaller, more modest, and a complete patchwork. =)

Oh, wow, an 8-bit house. That roof's for real?? I guess that would be more like Nudge's house. Like her, a funky patchwork of different parts. Tsillah's more of an "eclectiscist", hence that purple/blue house (and the little moped would also fit her, methinks)

[Dave]

Speaking of coffee... now that Monica is the Jaguar Girl, capable of traveling the world of the dead and talking with its residents (supposedly), what does this mean for our demon-infested barista? Could Monica find the actual Tina? Could she bring her back? Would Tina (soul) want to come? Would Tina (demons) give up their autonomy? Could Maya make another Golem with a lifespan for Tina (soul) to inhabit? Would she be demonless or get a new set to inhabit her? Why is one of my nipples bigger than the other two?

TlalocW

The "real Tina" (her human soul) isn't in the world of the dead... it/she is part of The Companion. Tina's soul is the "spackle" which fused Shelly's various individual demons into a single "coven" entity.

Re-embodying the original human Tina would not only displace the demon-coven Tina (call her "Pinocchia" because she's trying to become human) but would require that Connie be ripped apart in order to retrieve Tina's soul... if such is even possible at this point. You'd have to destroy two quasi-human entities, in order to revive one true human, and would generate two coveys of free-range demons (possibly rather annoyed?) as a side effect. Even if the Tina demons could inhabit a golem, Connie would be gone as a unique entity. Or, possibly, the Tina soul could fuse with the Tina demons, creating a different soul/demon hybrid Tina inhabiting the Tina body... but Connie would still have been destroyed.

Even if it's possible, it might be a Bad Idea for several reasons.

As to your nipples... it's probably the result of a childhood accident. You were climbing around in the branches one day getting some good healthy outdoor exercise, slipped and fell, and gouged yourself on a sharp broken twig. Although it healed OK, you were permanently scarred by a symma tree.

(deposits a nonreversing mirror in the Pun Jar)

[DilyV]

By the by, a bit OT, but the link to the Wapsi Wiki got me to do some google-street-tourism. You know what? I found Tsillah's home. It's SO her.. Check "18 Maple Place, Minneapolis" with streetview, turn around 180 degrees, and be surprised (or aghast, depending on one's color-sensibilities)

Ah, my eyes! If anything that might be too tasteful - there are only two or three colors. Very much Tsillah's palette, though, and near the right neighborhood!

Years back there was a house like that in my own neighborhood; the owners worked at a paint store, so they'd get a gallon or two of random colors as leftovers any time they needed to paint anything. Fine quality paint, but the colors were whatever was surplus at work. The house was amazing to look at. Alas, someone with more conventional tastes bought it and now it looks like all the other houses.

Well I went looking for a house that I used to pass all the time going to and from work. I couldn't find it through Google Maps (Moople?) but it was a modest middle-aged home with a sort of spindle and bead 'gingerbread'. And it was painted six or seven different pastel colors. I thought it was wonderful, but apparently the owners took a lot of crap from the neighborhood over it. (It was on the fringes of a hoity-toity area) If I find it later I'll post it somwheres.

Moops? No... Goops... LOL

[DilyV]

A couple things can be deduced or confirmed by Tsillah's declaration:

-Shelley is definitely a titan, not some sort of sub-titan;
-Tsillah and Nudge are more than one million years old;
-which makes them much older than some titans, including Bia, who was a titan-child a mere 12,000 years ago. And Epimetheus, Kulkulkan, and so on?

If I understand this correctly, the titans and the gods are much more recent arrivals to the scene, not just in power but in terms of birth, than, at the least, Charon and his daughters. What other sub-titans do we know about?

I'm thinking Tsillah is blowing smoke here; a million years is a long time, and pushes the timeline rather farther back than is plausible. For one thing it predates the evolution of the Neanderthal; we're before modern humans here, not that that really matters to Tsillah - but what would they be doing all that time? Titans don't seem to predate modern humans, given that they look perfectly human. Bia might be a shapeshifter but Epimethius isn't, certainly not consciously.

Although I don't see anything here suggesting that Tsillah would be old enough to remember the last time this happened.

I should've had Tsillah say "a bajillion years" or some other made up word. She pulling a number out of her butt to just mean "a really long time".

As the elves would say, "nae hae" a term meaning more years than I can count (thanks to Wen Spencer and the Tinker series of books for this term). I agree though... bajillion would be a word I could see Tsillah using. She seems like a pre-adolescent mindset who would come up with and use such terms.

[TlalocW]

Speaking of coffee... now that Monica is the Jaguar Girl, capable of traveling the world of the dead and talking with its residents (supposedly), what does this mean for our demon-infested barista? Could Monica find the actual Tina? Could she bring her back? Would Tina (soul) want to come? Would Tina (demons) give up their autonomy? Could Maya make another Golem with a lifespan for Tina (soul) to inhabit? Would she be demonless or get a new set to inhabit her? Why is one of my nipples bigger than the other two?

TlalocW

The "real Tina" (her human soul) isn't in the world of the dead... it/she is part of The Companion. Tina's soul is the "spackle" which fused Shelly's various individual demons into a single "coven" entity.

Wait, did I miss something? I know the series of comics you're probably referring to, but I had a different take on them. So Connie is Shelly's demons with Tina's soul? I guess my interpretation was off, but now that I read through it again... mmmmaybe?

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/kept-me-safe/

TlalocW

[Fairportfan]

My grandparent's home on Lake Jodeco near Jonesboro GA was pink. It was pink when they bought it in the mid-50s after Granddad took early retirement because of a heart condition, and it was pink when Nana died at 102 in 2002.

Mu mother and aunts sold the house.

It's white now.

[Dave]

Wait, did I miss something? I know the series of comics you're probably referring to, but I had a different take on them. So Connie is Shelly's demons with Tina's soul? I guess my interpretation was off, but now that I read through it again... mmmmaybe?

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/kept-me-safe/

That's how I, and I think most of us interpreted the discussion between Shelly, Connie, and Nudge.

Three people encountered death that day... Monica (accident), Tina (same accident), and Shelly (vision quest). Monica survived, and her demons are still around. Tina died, her body was revived by Nudge, and her demons are running the ship... her soul/self is absent, and most of her memory along with it. Shelly survived thanks to Jin; Shelly's demons barred her soul from traveling to the land of the dead, but they also "got in the way" when Tina's soul tried to make the passage and some sort of "fusion" took place, creating the hybrid demon/soul entity Conscience.

We don't know for sure whether this fusion was an accident, or whether Shelly's demons knew it would occur... Connie has no memories of the time prior to her "birth". Connie did say that neither Tina nor Shelly was "supposed to die" that day, and both the Tina-demons and the Shelly/Connie demons seem to have been stripped of their memories for having broken the "No ganging up on humans other than the ones you are specifically assigned to" rule. This does suggest some sort of foreknowledge and planning and collaboration by someone... but we don't know who knew what, when.

It was Connie's anomalous hybrid nature which disturbed/frightened the rule-loving apos so badly that they left her, and Shelly alone during Shelly's exile in the Forest... this seems to be the only reason Shelly was not killed for intruding into the Forest.

That's how I understand the situation, anyhow. I'm curious... what was your take on it?

[kingklash]

The coffee run might just turn into another mini-adventure.

[Wyvern]

The "real Tina" (her human soul) isn't in the world of the dead... it/she is part of The Companion. Tina's soul is the "spackle" which fused Shelly's various individual demons into a single "coven" entity.

I...don't remember this being revealed. It's not a model that can be easily refuted, though; as mentioned, Tina died the same day the Companion was created. Given Shelly's other anomalies - half-Sphinx, half-Titan, holder of badly-documented magical Lathian doohickies - there hardly seems to be a need to add still more surprises.

[Wyvern]

By the by, a bit OT, but the link to the Wapsi Wiki got me to do some google-street-tourism. You know what? I found Tsillah's home. It's SO her..

check "18 Maple Place, Minneapolis" with streetview, turn around 180 degrees, and be surprised (or aghast, depending on one's color-sensibilities)

Check out 5121 Penn Avenue South, Minneapolis, Minnesota on the Google street view. It's smaller, more modest, and a complete patchwork. =)

Lovely! Someone actually has decorated their house; good for them.

Since we have you talking about real-world Minneapolis locations, I've got a question. We've seen the same shot of the Central Ave SE bridge more than once, in various contexts. Is this a generic background image or should we actually be placing the characters there?

(For the curious, it's the view from SE Main St; street view the Astor Cafe and look west. It's a lovely view, but on the other side of downtown from the other Wapsi Square neighborhood locations.)

[Opus the Poet]

As I thought. Both Vamps plopped down on the floor. Hoping they can hold on to their "lunch"

By the by, a bit OT, but the link to the Wapsi Wiki got me to do some google-street-tourism. You know what? I found Tsillah's home. It's SO her..

check "18 Maple Place, Minneapolis" with streetview, turn around 180 degrees, and be surprised (or aghast, depending on one's color-sensibilities)

I see a rather intense robin's egg blue house and a white house with a white picket fence, what do you see?

[Dave]

The "real Tina" (her human soul) isn't in the world of the dead... it/she is part of The Companion. Tina's soul is the "spackle" which fused Shelly's various individual demons into a single "coven" entity.

I...don't remember this being revealed. It's not a model that can be easily refuted, though; as mentioned, Tina died the same day the Companion was created. Given Shelly's other anomalies - half-Sphinx, half-Titan, holder of badly-documented magical Lathian doohickies - there hardly seems to be a need to add still more surprises.

Well, I could certainly be wrong... but I'd be interested in other interpretations of the strips which discuss Connie's nature. I think it has been explicitly revealed... the dialog is a bit indirect in places but the meaning seems clear in total.

• We've known for years that Connie is a "melding" of all of Shelly's demons into a single being... here.
• The Tina 2.1 collective "coven" intervenes on Becky's behalf, using their power of demonic compulsion to "persuade" Becky's insurance company to do the right thing and replace her lost medications. In doing so they courted destruction, for disobeying the sphinx law about compelling humans. When Phix shows up to confront Tina 2.1 with this, she says "I'm loving what you've become", complements her/them for tacking a human ethical dilemma well, and says "There's another close to what you may become"... here. I believe Connie is the one Phix is referring to here... another group of demons, on the way to becoming a single and moral/ethical entity.
• Shelly starts discussing with Connie the concept of a human soul - specifically, whether they exist... here.
• Shelly suggests to Connie that on the day that Shelly almost died (and the day Tina did die), "you" (the demons making up Connie) were "blocking the doorway" when Tina's soul tried to go through... here.
• Connie tries to evade the question, but doesn't actually deny the truth of what Shelly suggested. When Shelly says that it was clear that the demons were trying to block something from passing through the doorway, says that this is good evidence that souls exist, and says that she thinks that this is what made Connie into a "you" rather than a "them", Connie looks down and away and says "Gotcha"... here. This sounds like an acknowledgement of the truth to me.
• Shelly and Connie go talk to Nudge, explain what they believe, and ask Nudge what she knows about it. Nudge denies knowing anything more than that... that Shelly-in-the-Forest had simply told her to make sure that Shelly-the-young-girl became lost on her vision quest (thus setting up Connie's creation). Nudge says "So, a demon/soul hybrid. No wonder the apos were scared"... here.
• Connie ponders why other demon coveys haven't done the same thing, as gaining a soul would protect them from the apos... here.

So, unless I'm really misreading this dialog badly, Connie is clearly a fusion of Shelly's covey of demons, and a human soul... this is what made her an individual, rather than a collective. The only soul which has been discussed in this strip context is Tina's, and she's the only strip character who has known to have actually died on that fateful day and the only human character to have "lost" something (her memories and "self").

I suppose that Connie could be a fusion between Shelly's demons, and an entirely different soul (one other than Tina's) but I haven't seen anything at all in the strip dialog to support this idea.

Comments? Criticisms? Suggestions? Dirty remarks?

[Yamara]

I should've had Tsillah say "a bajillion years" or some other made up word. She pulling a number out of her butt to just mean "a really long time".

... It's... still... January 23rd. Your intellectual property.... Text editor sitting riiiiight theeeere....

"Over one million years" does sound like she's being precise rather than effusive; its deep-time gravitas contrasting with the immediate need to ingest coffee. Or maybe she's imitating Dr. Evil?

...

I'll keep it off the wiki chronology.

[Dave]

I should've had Tsillah say "a bajillion years" or some other made up word. She pulling a number out of her butt to just mean "a really long time".

... It's... still... January 23rd. Your intellectual property.... Text editor sitting riiiiight theeeere....

"Over one million years" does sound like she's being precise rather than effusive; its deep-time gravitas contrasting with the immediate need to ingest coffee. Or maybe she's imitating Dr. Evil?

I'll keep it off the wiki chronology.

I'm reminded of a bit of dialog in Harry Harrison's "Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers" in which an alien tells our two human heroes that a particular event happened "approximately 16 billion years ago."

"That figure is exact?" asked one of the humans. "Of course," replied the alien.

[Yamara]

The "real Tina" (her human soul) isn't in the world of the dead... it/she is part of The Companion. Tina's soul is the "spackle" which fused Shelly's various individual demons into a single "coven" entity.

I...don't remember this being revealed. It's not a model that can be easily refuted, though; as mentioned, Tina died the same day the Companion was created. Given Shelly's other anomalies - half-Sphinx, half-Titan, holder of badly-documented magical Lathian doohickies - there hardly seems to be a need to add still more surprises.

Well, I could certainly be wrong... but I'd be interested in other interpretations of the strips which discuss Connie's nature. I think it has been explicitly revealed... the dialog is a bit indirect in places but the meaning seems clear in total.

• We've known for years that Connie is a "melding" of all of Shelly's demons into a single being... here.
• The Tina 2.1 collective "coven" intervenes on Becky's behalf, using their power of demonic compulsion to "persuade" Becky's insurance company to do the right thing and replace her lost medications. In doing so they courted destruction, for disobeying the sphinx law about compelling humans. When Phix shows up to confront Tina 2.1 with this, she says "I'm loving what you've become", complements her/them for tacking a human ethical dilemma well, and says "There's another close to what you may become"... here. I believe Connie is the one Phix is referring to here... another group of demons, on the way to becoming a single and moral/ethical entity.
• Shelly starts discussing with Connie the concept of a human soul - specifically, whether they exist... here.
• Shelly suggests to Connie that on the day that Shelly almost died (and the day Tina did die), "you" (the demons making up Connie) were "blocking the doorway" when Tina's soul tried to go through... here.
• Connie tries to evade the question, but doesn't actually deny the truth of what Shelly suggested. When Shelly says that it was clear that the demons were trying to block something from passing through the doorway, says that this is good evidence that souls exist, and says that she thinks that this is what made Connie into a "you" rather than a "them", Connie looks down and away and says "Gotcha"... here. This sounds like an acknowledgement of the truth to me.
• Shelly and Connie go talk to Nudge, explain what they believe, and ask Nudge what she knows about it. Nudge denies knowing anything more than that... that Shelly-in-the-Forest had simply told her to make sure that Shelly-the-young-girl became lost on her vision quest (thus setting up Connie's creation). Nudge says "So, a demon/soul hybrid. No wonder the apos were scared"... here.
• Connie ponders why other demon coveys haven't done the same thing, as gaining a soul would protect them from the apos... here.

So, unless I'm really misreading this dialog badly, Connie is clearly a fusion of Shelly's covey of demons, and a human soul... this is what made her an individual, rather than a collective. The only soul which has been discussed in this strip context is Tina's, and she's the only strip character who has known to have actually died on that fateful day and the only human character to have "lost" something (her memories and "self").

I suppose that Connie could be a fusion between Shelly's demons, and an entirely different soul (one other than Tina's) but I haven't seen anything at all in the strip dialog to support this idea.

Comments? Criticisms? Suggestions? Dirty remarks?

There are three known deaths of interested parties on the same day. It has not, to my reading, been determined whose soul-- or souls-- wound up as part of Connie. Monica's is pinned to the Jaguar planewalker she's become. Tina's is not in Tina. So Tina and Shelly's souls are kinda AWOL: and both Tina and Shelly have been directly creeped out by the Creepy Little Girl. I don't believe we've even have a final determination of whose demons wound up with who!

But all that's a shiny distraction compared to wondering why relatives of Charon are so involved in keeping souls from being delivered.

I'd hate to accuse any Wapsi Lady of larceny.

[Fairportfan]

Oh, my, no. Perish forbid that the girl who can do that should be a grumpy pants!

At least while i'm in the blast radius...

=======================

One of my great regrets is that i never saw a live nuclear test - from a safe distance, of course.

[Dave]

You're saying that her ire of fire could be dire, if Ms. Grumpy Pants lets loose her rants? If she's grumpy, we'll end up lumpy?

Oh. OK. You're probably right.

[Fairportfan]

{dignified non-response}