What Did You Do 2018-10-01

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Bookworm
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by Bookworm »

jwhouk wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:20 pm
Bookworm wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:25 pm The fun part on those? In my neighborhood, they keep coming by with Spanish-only speakers.
My only response to that, considering where I live: :shock: :shock: :shock:
I live in Houston. We have a LOT (far too many) of both legal and illegal 'south of the border' Spanish speakers, who have absolutely NO interest in learning any English whatsoever. I know this from some customers who are fluently bilingual, and have those folks working for them. They aren't particularly thrilled with those people either, but they're the ones that are doing the jobs. It happens because our government(s) actively pander to them, providing everything in every language under the sun.

Funny thing about it. The Vietnamese folks who had a hard time learning the language (grandmother's, etc) always dragged a kid with them if they needed to go to an office, like the DMV. Was funny listening to the descriptions, and seeing it. (Friend of mine had his grandmother do it to him a number of times). You'd go into a store, and there'd be this older woman with a death grip on the shoulder of a 12-16 year old kid - the translator. Hispanics wanted one provided for them, the asians provided their own. Might be a combination of laziness and trust, dunno.
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Warrl
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by Warrl »

It happens because our government(s) actively pander to them, providing everything in every language under the sun.
Uh, no. For quite a few things, only English and Spanish.

I was once in a fairly crowded Greyhound station in upstate New York. I heard nobody speaking Spanish; on the other hand, about quite a few of the people around me - easily a dozen people in at least three groups - were speaking French. And many of the signs were in English and Spanish. None in French.

I don't think I've ever seen a multilingual sign in the US in any languages other than English and Spanish, except on Native American reservations and in immigrant-owned-and-operated businesses.
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lake_wrangler
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by lake_wrangler »

Try driving north on I-87, in NY State, and around the Adirondack park or so, or maybe just a little north of it, you will start seeing some signs in English and French, more so as you keep driving north towards the province of Québec.
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Just Old Al
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by Just Old Al »

Bilingual signs:

Not 10 miles from meat the border to New Hampshire:

Welcome to/Bienvenue A New Hampshire. There was at one time a very strong French-Canadian presence in New England and these signs are a remnant of it.
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by FreeFlier »

Warrl wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:13 pm
It happens because our government(s) actively pander to them, providing everything in every language under the sun.
Uh, no. For quite a few things, only English and Spanish.

I was once in a fairly crowded Greyhound station in upstate New York. I heard nobody speaking Spanish; on the other hand, about quite a few of the people around me - easily a dozen people in at least three groups - were speaking French. And many of the signs were in English and Spanish. None in French.

I don't think I've ever seen a multilingual sign in the US in any languages other than English and Spanish, except on Native American reservations and in immigrant-owned-and-operated businesses.
Around here, virtually every government building has polylingual signs all over the place.

And some businesses are required to post multilingual signs as well.

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lake_wrangler
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by lake_wrangler »

I happened to stop in Woodstock, VA, last summer, to drop by the county clerk's office and pick up a copy of my marriage certificate. There was a sign that said that people could be helped in their language, if they needed it. So I asked, out of curiosity, if they would speak French, if I claimed to not speak English. The lady who was helping me answered, in French, that she could. I don't know how fluent she is, but she did speak it.
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

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He's mister GlytchMeister, he's mister code
He's mister exploiter, he's mister ones and zeros
They call me GlytchMeister, whatever I touch
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by Bookworm »

Warrl wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:13 pm
It happens because our government(s) actively pander to them, providing everything in every language under the sun.
Uh, no. For quite a few things, only English and Spanish.

I was once in a fairly crowded Greyhound station in upstate New York. I heard nobody speaking Spanish; on the other hand, about quite a few of the people around me - easily a dozen people in at least three groups - were speaking French. And many of the signs were in English and Spanish. None in French.

I don't think I've ever seen a multilingual sign in the US in any languages other than English and Spanish, except on Native American reservations and in immigrant-owned-and-operated businesses.
When I go to the DMV, or IRS, voting booths, etc, I get documents written in English, Spanish, Vietnamese, Cantonese, Mandarin, French, and German, and a couple of other languages that look familiar but I can't give a name to. No greek, interestingly enough. Maybe they figure that all of those languages are Greek to the printer. It's also insane that the manual for almost anything I buy from an American company, selling to the US, is two pages of information, but is 50 pages thick. (and apparently translated between languages by someone who isn't very familiar with any of them, including his own.)

I don't want an "English only" language dictum, similar to what they do in Quebec and French. I simply want 'All official government communications are to be in English'. Basically, stop having to provide free translations for everyone who has been here for years and doesn't see a reason to learn English. It'll save a CRAPTON of my tax money. There's an area in Houston where a lot of the street signs are in Vietnamese as well as English. Doesn't bother me a bit, because they were paid for by the people that lived in that area _separate from the government_. One of the immigrant groups decided to help their older folks, got the money together, paid for the signs, and paid for them to put them in. The original English signs are fully intact, and are what the city maintains. (This is different from Quebec, where those sons-of-.. pulled down all the English signs in the early 90's, despite them being mandated by law at the time. Luckily I knew French. Very much not tourist friendly, when you're talking about Hull, across the river from Ottawa - the capital)
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lake_wrangler
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by lake_wrangler »

Bookworm wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:32 amI don't want an "English only" language dictum, similar to what they do in Quebec and French. I simply want 'All official government communications are to be in English'. Basically, stop having to provide free translations for everyone who has been here for years and doesn't see a reason to learn English.
Well, that's not quite true... All government services are given in both languages (English and French), and people are allowed to put bilingual signs (of whatever language) on their stores, walls, whatever, as long as the French portion is the predominant one. (Although the law actually goes as far as to state how much more prominent the French portion is to be, I think, which may be taking it a bit far...) But as far as private businesses, you are more likely to encounter people speaking English in larger centers, like Montreal. The farther you go into the countryside, the less likely you are to find people who speak English, and the more "degraded" their English risks being...

Bookworm wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:32 amOne of the immigrant groups decided to help their older folks, got the money together, paid for the signs, and paid for them to put them in. The original English signs are fully intact, and are what the city maintains. (This is different from Quebec, where those sons-of-.. pulled down all the English signs in the early 90's, despite them being mandated by law at the time. Luckily I knew French. Very much not tourist friendly, when you're talking about Hull, across the river from Ottawa - the capital)
Indeed, all our road signs are now in French. Except in a few spots, where no one seems to have noticed the "Stop" signs, instead of the "Arrêt" that have replaced most of them. I have heard of cases in the news, over the years, where complaints were made to the Office de la Langue Française (essentially the French Language Police...) when someone would spot signs in English, or signs where the French was not predominant, and whoever had those signs were forced to modify or change them!

Growing up, we were so used to seeing both languages on some signs, that we actually called stop signs "Arrêt-Stop", while speaking in French. (As in: "Tu vas jusqu'à l'Arrêt-Stop, puis tu tourne à gauche." - "You go to the Arrêt-Stop sign, then you turn left.")
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by Bookworm »

The annoying part about the 'Tongue Troopers' (Language police) is that they go overboard. They attacked an -English- restaurant for having -English- menus, as well as advertising signs on the walls that were in English. That's like me complaining that a French restaurant has menus with French items, and putting up movie posters of (bad) French art films.

Pulling down all the signs was a violation of the laws, because Federal law required both languages on all signs. In Quebec, they decided it meant French only - everywhere else in the country, they had to have both. Even BC, which has more Chinese and Vietnamese than French speakers. (added just for the absurdity factor)

I remember Arrêt-Stop. It wasn't just the Quebecois that used that phrase. You ran across it in the Ottawa Valley on the Ontario side as well. Could be interesting hearing it in an Irish accent. (The twang)
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by Opus the Poet »

The stop signs say "stop" because about 10 years ago the people in charge made that the international standard, replacing the older inverted white triangle with the red border and stop in the local language in black on the inside. American movies had made the red octagon so familiar that children didn't recognize the triangle as a stop sign. They couldn't read "stop", but they know what that red octagon means. It's funny watching YouTube videos from France and Russia and seeing the red octagon with "stop" in white letters while all the advertising is in Cyrillic letters or French. And it makes learning what "stop" looks like in Arabic no longer a survival tactic.
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Bookworm
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Re: What Did You Do 2018-10-01

Post by Bookworm »

Opus the Poet wrote: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:57 pm The stop signs say "stop" because about 10 years ago the people in charge made that the international standard, replacing the older inverted white triangle with the red border and stop in the local language in black on the inside. American movies had made the red octagon so familiar that children didn't recognize the triangle as a stop sign. They couldn't read "stop", but they know what that red octagon means. It's funny watching YouTube videos from France and Russia and seeing the red octagon with "stop" in white letters while all the advertising is in Cyrillic letters or French. And it makes learning what "stop" looks like in Arabic no longer a survival tactic.
Heh. Sounds like one of the best reasons to make something an international standard. it's already recognized as such :)
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