At least 2012-10-18

[Yarner]

Yeah, it's time for Phix to crash the party and whip the minxes asses.

[TheDOCTOR]

I just love the way Shelly and Acacia have gotten so "Pally".
Shelly, sweetie, remember when you returned from the Time Forrest, all naked? You might want to return the kindness and get Monica a blanket.

[Boxilar]

Good GOD these two are pressing their luck! Monica is EXTREMELY angry and upset, and they're just pouring it on to make her MORE angry and upset. If we get past Friday without her ordering Bud to stop moving then poiting them both to God knows where, leaving Shelly to have to get herself and Bud back on her own, I'll be surprised.

They're pouring it on because Monica was being obstinate. Shelly tried calm, rational explanation back on the island.

Monica blew her off.

Shelly thought she'd be receptive after her reset and out of body experience.

Monica dove deeper into DeNile.

Bud escalated things.

If Monica continues to deny, I'm pretty sure they'll keep on pushing till she gets it.

As to how casual Bud and Shelly are being about this... We all know the horror of Bud's history, and Shelly's is only a bit less terrible, what with having to kill 56 versions of herself and all. It is a not so subtle reminder that both of these women have seen and done some terrible things, even if they remain basicly good at heart. They know M is efectively immortal, so a bit of blood, pain and gore are no big deal to them if it serves the greater good. (The 3/5 crack is yanking her chain.) In thier eyes, this is part of Monica growing up. They want her to move up to thier level of maturity as supernatural beings, and Monica was refusing to do so. Thier banter reminds me of two parents discussing the antics of a stubborn toddler.

[KateKane]

Interesting Monica seems to have minor amnesia as she does not remember what Bud did. So the re-birth is accompanied by a memory blackout. Wonder how much time it covers. This could be a problem under certain conditions.
Even thourhg they did it to prove to Monica how dangerous she is it does indicate a certain casual attitude towards her. Combined with the memory black out now if you want to keep Monica from remembering what you were talking about just kill her and make a story up. I hope that doesn't become a trend.

I would say it is not a matter of amnesia, it is that she was killed instantly from behind. She had her heart punched out before she knew what was happening. Her brain ceased functioning before it could form a memory of the event.

Death does not occur that quickly for the brain. She would have memories from the event. It takes head trauma before memories get lost. While the heart died istantly the brain lingers on. The only option would be for the re-birth to kick in before the memory chains impress. That makes it a memory loss due to the re-birth. So it's a matter of how much time she lost. seconds, minutes, or more. If she thinks Shelly stuck a knife in her again then she lost more of the conversation then it seems she did is my guess.

Well, since I have never known anyone who had their heart ripped out and came back to life, I can not say for certain whether or not they would remember it happening. However, I think it is reasonable to assume that once the heart was removed, there would be little memory formation going on. Even though there is some brain activity going on even after decapitation, it is reasonable to conclude that there is not much complex reasoning and reflection happening in those few seconds. It is doubtful that in those few second of left over neural firings she was reflecting on what had happened and coming to a conclusion. So when she resurrected, she knew that something happened, but since she did not witness the attack, she had no idea exactly what occurred.

[bmonk]

Interesting Monica seems to have minor amnesia as she does not remember what Bud did. So the re-birth is accompanied by a memory blackout. Wonder how much time it covers. This could be a problem under certain conditions.
Even thourhg they did it to prove to Monica how dangerous she is it does indicate a certain casual attitude towards her. Combined with the memory black out now if you want to keep Monica from remembering what you were talking about just kill her and make a story up. I hope that doesn't become a trend.

I would say it is not a matter of amnesia, it is that she was killed instantly from behind. She had her heart punched out before she knew what was happening. Her brain ceased functioning before it could form a memory of the event.

Death does not occur that quickly for the brain. She would have memories from the event. It takes head tramua before memories get lost. While the heart died istantly the brain lingers on. The only option would be for the re-birth to kick in before the memory chains impress. That makes it a memory loss due to the re-birth. So it's a matter of how much time she lost. seconds, minutes, or more. If she thinks Shelly stuck a knife in her again then she lost more of the conversation then it seems she did is my guess.

Best scientific guess is that you should have some seconds--up to 13--after your head is removed (by guillotine, for example) before you experience brain death. HOwever, you may not be coherent and making new memories that long....

[Julie]

So, it's the key in her head that's doing this to M!
I can accept that. You can't meddle with supernatural powers without being affected.
(I was really afraid that pablo will pull out another rabbit from the hat and discover that M's great-grandparents were also gods or something... that would have been too much)

Anyways - apparently a sided effect of being a millenia-old sage has the inevitable side effect of being a jerk sometimes.

Actually, I think Paul did confirm that M has phoenix ancestry in his comment here (where he confirms that Jaedreth's assertion about how Phoenix Blood and the "head spike" work together).

In other news, I would hate to be in the same room as Monica when she looks that pissed. Just sayin'...

[Dave]

Interesting Monica seems to have minor amnesia as she does not remember what Bud did. So the re-birth is accompanied by a memory blackout. Wonder how much time it covers. This could be a problem under certain conditions.

Best scientific guess is that you should have some seconds--up to 13--after your head is removed (by guillotine, for example) before you experience brain death. HOwever, you may not be coherent and making new memories that long....

A couple of points here:

I believe I've read that loss of oxygen to the brain from a sudden drop in blood pressure results in unconsciousness a lot faster than people have been saying... within a second or two in many cases. Fainting is due to this phenomenon and it's quite quick. It probably varies quite a bit from person to person and situation to situation... I recall reading that during the French Revolution, a nobleman about to be beheaded promised to wink at his executioner if he was still conscious after his head fell into the basket... and did so!

Also, human memory has both short-term and long-term components, and it takes time (minutes) for short-term memories to be reliably transcribed into long-term memory. If the amygdala is compromised, this may not happen... there are people with specific types of brain injury who are unable to form new long-term memories at all, and forget all new information in an hour or so.

My guess as to what happened here is that Monica went into shock and "blacked out" almost immediately after Bud tore out her heart, due to the sudden loss of blood pressure from massive bleeding. This could easily have resulted in the "What happened?" effect sometimes seen in people who faint... her short-term memories of the event itself were "lost in the crash" and not transcribed to long-term memory before her body/brain were reborn in flames.

As she had been busy talking (and denying) at the moment she was hit, and wasn't looking at Bud and Shelly, she may not even have had time to realize what had actually occurred before she passed out... didn't even know she had been sucker-punched from behind.

So, I don't find it at all surprising that she is a bit confoosed.

[Ember Quill]

Interesting Monica seems to have minor amnesia as she does not remember what Bud did. So the re-birth is accompanied by a memory blackout. Wonder how much time it covers. This could be a problem under certain conditions.

Best scientific guess is that you should have some seconds--up to 13--after your head is removed (by guillotine, for example) before you experience brain death. HOwever, you may not be coherent and making new memories that long....

A couple of points here:

I believe I've read that loss of oxygen to the brain from a sudden drop in blood pressure results in unconsciousness a lot faster than people have been saying... within a second or two in many cases. Fainting is due to this phenomenon and it's quite quick. It probably varies quite a bit from person to person and situation to situation... I recall reading that during the French Revolution, a nobleman about to be beheaded promised to wink at his executioner if he was still conscious after his head fell into the basket... and did so!

Also, human memory has both short-term and long-term components, and it takes time (minutes) for short-term memories to be reliably transcribed into long-term memory. If the amygdala is compromised, this may not happen... there are people with specific types of brain injury who are unable to form new long-term memories at all, and forget all new information in an hour or so.

My guess as to what happened here is that Monica went into shock and "blacked out" almost immediately after Bud tore out her heart, due to the sudden loss of blood pressure from massive bleeding. This could easily have resulted in the "What happened?" effect sometimes seen in people who faint... her short-term memories of the event itself were "lost in the crash" and not transcribed to long-term memory before her body/brain were reborn in flames.

As she had been busy talking (and denying) at the moment she was hit, and wasn't looking at Bud and Shelly, she may not even have had time to realize what had actually occurred before she passed out... didn't even know she had been sucker-punched from behind.

So, I don't find it at all surprising that she is a bit confoosed.

I think all of you might be reading a little too much into this. I don't think she's confused or missing her memory or anything. When she says "And you just did it again!" and Shelley and Acacia try to clarify that they didn't stab her in the head, Monica then explains "You were fucking with my body again!" She didn't forget anything, she's just angry that her friends once again did something to her that would have killed her under normal circumstances.

Honestly, I can see her point. And with the way Acacia and Shelley make light of it and mention the odds of her survival which weren't even that good, she has every right to be pissed off. While, yes, the demonstration of her ability to come back to life was kind of necessary with the way she was being so stubborn about it, the callousness they're showing now isn't going to get them back on Monica's good side any time soon.

[Jabberwonky]

carnac 18OCT12.png

I see Friday ending in a miffed teleport, and Monday starting with a dishevled one...

"Phix, Monica, and the dreaded Friday Cliffhangers."
"Phix, Monica, and the dreaded Friday Cliffhangers."
*glare*
"Just restating for emphasis, O Precognitive One!"
"May a weird holy man claim your sister in the name of Spain!"
"Phix, Monica, and the dreaded Friday Cliffhangers."
*opens envelope*
"Name a Sphinx, a Minx, and a Jinx!"

Ha-Haa!
A thing of beauty Mr. Klash.

[Fairportfan]

The way these two know how to play the odds they should poit to Vegas.

Also, Shelly seems to be defying physics in panel 1. So she isn't a sphinx after all, she's Pinkie Pie.

what?? no thats just a normal 'lean into shot' pic.... at least she isnt 'holding onto the cartoon frame' I have seen elsewhere!!!!

This? (Just yesterday, actually.)

[Fairportfan]

Anyone else thinking it's time those two to stop kidding around and start taking this just a bit more seriously? They made their point; M might listen now, if they'd let her calm down a bit.

'Scars"? What have i forgotten?

My question exactly. Did she do something when she and Jin went Island hopping?

She got blown up by a volcano, blown up by a mine, and had two high velocity emergency-poit reentries.

Both she and Jin had a good number of burns and scrapes from that, I'd be really surprised if she didn't pick up a few scars from it.

Right. Wasn't thinking about that - though i was, actually thinking about Bud with the charts and "Now what have we learned...?" routine.

[Fairportfan]

I just love the way Shelly and Acacia have gotten so "Pally".

Heck - they've been making bets on how Monica will react if they push her for a long time.

[Fairportfan]

Awright. Got a little problem here, as i see it.

From a previous thread:

The spike in her head is not physical. It can't be dislodged, except by someone as powerful as the one who put it in.

Now keep in mind, with the Phoenix Blood, if she didn't have the spike in her head, she would have burst into flames, and then started as a baby, with all her memories. However, the spike in her head fixes her in that time spot. It forces her phoenix powers to regenerate her body at the point the spike was placed in, and no sooner. This means every bit of age she accumulates between 'deaths' is lost when she dies. Even if she remains safe long enough to die of old age, the moment she dies of old age, the phoenix power will cause her to regenerate, and the spike will make sure that power brings her body back to the physical age she had when the spike was put in her head.

In other words, she cannot die until The Fates make her.

*points* This. =)

Okay, fine.

So Paul confirms Jeadreth's speculation.

But, does he confirm all of it? That is, do we have Word Of God that "... with the Phoenix Blood, if she didn't have the spike in her head, she would have burst into flames, and then started as a baby, with all her memories"?

If so, we have a problem with the Bus Incident. An important story point is that Monica's heart stopped. She was "dead". And that's what made her the "gateway".

So either there are degrees of "deadness" in the Wapsiverse, or Jaedreth's speculation is not correct in all points ... or Paul has got himself a contradiction.

Place yer bets, ladeez an' gennelmens!

[Mark N]

If so, we have a problem with the Bus Incident. An important story point is that Monica's heart stopped. She was "dead". And that's what made her the "gateway".

So either there are degrees of "deadness" in the Wapsiverse, or Jaedreth's speculation is not correct in all points ... or Paul has got himself a contradiction.

Place yer bets, ladeez an' gennelmens!

No contradiction at all. As a surgical nurse friend of mine has said, there is dead and then there is dead. If your heart goes into arrest you are clinically dead but are able to be revived; while having your heart torn out of your chest is another level of dead altogether. When Monica was hit by the bus she was revivable (sic) so her heart may have restarted on its own. As I did not see any indication in the flashbacks that Jin did CPR or anything else for that mater to restart her heart it looks like this may have been a foreshadowing of our current event.

[MrFireDragon]

I just love the fact that M is pissed and shocked and she is not even bothering to cover up

also I see that gravity is no longer putting much pressure in a couple of areas in her body

Body reset is cool

[Wapsi]

Let me clarify, the spike brings her back to the point that it was put in her head and not starting over as a baby, BUT the spike is the Phoenix blood (you'll have to wait for more info on that) Monica can be injured and has to heal normally, but now because of the spike (key), if she "dies" she starts over. Infer from this, prior to being stabbed in the head, she could be killed. As she gained power, she could protect herself and others, now she can regenerate if she dies from old age or trauma.

[bmonk]

If so, we have a problem with the Bus Incident. An important story point is that Monica's heart stopped. She was "dead". And that's what made her the "gateway".

So either there are degrees of "deadness" in the Wapsiverse, or Jaedreth's speculation is not correct in all points ... or Paul has got himself a contradiction.

Place yer bets, ladeez an' gennelmens!

No contradiction at all. As a surgical nurse friend of mine has said, there is dead and then there is dead. If your heart goes into arrest you are clinically dead but are able to be revived; while having your heart torn out of your chest is another level of dead altogether. When Monica was hit by the bus she was revivable (sic) so her heart may have restarted on its own. As I did not see any indication in the flashbacks that Jin did CPR or anything else for that mater to restart her heart it looks like this may have been a foreshadowing of our current event.

The big difference between "mostly dead" and "all dead"?

[Opus the Poet]

First!

...really, Opus? I mean, really.

Hey, I went to a lot of work to do that.

1) preload a new topic with the "First!" text and the date with the cursor next to the date to type the title of the strip

2) constant reloading of the home page to get to read the comic and find the title.

3) Constant forced repression of the OCD tendency to click "submit" button. ("Now!" No, it's not ready yet. "Now!" No, it's not ready yet. X about 5k)

Plus, funny! The guy who creates the thread is of course going to be the first post, the "First!" comment is comically redundant.

[kingklash]

If so, we have a problem with the Bus Incident. An important story point is that Monica's heart stopped. She was "dead". And that's what made her the "gateway".

So either there are degrees of "deadness" in the Wapsiverse, or Jaedreth's speculation is not correct in all points ... or Paul has got himself a contradiction.

Place yer bets, ladeez an' gennelmens!

No contradiction at all. As a surgical nurse friend of mine has said, there is dead and then there is dead. If your heart goes into arrest you are clinically dead but are able to be revived; while having your heart torn out of your chest is another level of dead altogether. When Monica was hit by the bus she was revivable (sic) so her heart may have restarted on its own. As I did not see any indication in the flashbacks that Jin did CPR or anything else for that mater to restart her heart it looks like this may have been a foreshadowing of our current event.

The big difference between "mostly dead" and "all dead"?

That puts me in the mood for a nice MLT.

[Dave]

Plus, funny! The guy who creates the thread is of course going to be the first post, the "First!" comment is comically redundant.

And vulnerable. I've seen content-free "First!" postings in some forums actively discouraged i.e. deleted without mercy by the Moderator).