Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

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Dave
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Dave »

Wyvern wrote:
donoho wrote:I miss Monica talking/swearing/etc in teh language her grandmother taught her. :p
You mean in 'Glyph' - yes, I thought of that, too. Come to think of it, we haven't seen much Glyph lately at all.
I suspect that Monica has come to appreciate how dangerous Glyph can be, on the tongue of a Glyph Reader who has the power of command over two (at least) very powerful golems, and also has an "in" with demons and the dead.

If I remember correctly, Monica had been musing to herself about something she wanted to remember, and then mumbled "Remember" in Glyph... and that was what brought Bud out of her amnesiac state and caused her to remember her role in the destruction of Lanthis. My impression was that this was not a deliberate action on Monica's part, and that she was surprised and rather disturbed by Bud's subsequent emotional breakdown. If I'm right about this (possibly not) this might have caused Monica to be somewhat leery of ever using Glyph without a lot of forethought!
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Jabberwonky
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Jabberwonky »

Whilst we are tripping the ether, we can't discount the effect of cellular memory. This is not a reality to ignore, admittedly anecdotal, tales of transplant recipients taking on personality traits of donors...
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Mark N
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Mark N »

I am thinking that her memories are more linked to her astral projection than the wetware of mortal brain. So while her body may reset to a default point, her memories will continue unaffected. i am also thinking that she regenerates basic damage without a body-wide reset, but major damage (loss of a heart or brain) causes her to go into full Phoenix mode and she burns up to the default.
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Fairportfan »

It's magic.

If we knew how it works, it wouldn't be magic.

Do not try to analyse it.

By definition, you CANNOT.

BECAUSE IT'S FRIGGIN' MAGIC!
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shadowinthelight
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by shadowinthelight »

Jabberwonky wrote:Whilst we are tripping the ether, we can't discount the effect of cellular memory. This is not a reality to ignore, admittedly anecdotal, tales of transplant recipients taking on personality traits of donors...
The plot of the movie Body Parts. Tagline: "It will scare you... to pieces"
Julie, about Wapsi Square wrote:Oh goodness yes. So much paranormal!

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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Wyvern »

Dave wrote:I suspect that Monica has come to appreciate how dangerous Glyph can be, on the tongue of a Glyph Reader who has the power of command over two (at least) very powerful golems, and also has an "in" with demons and the dead. If I remember correctly, Monica had been musing to herself about something she wanted to remember, and then mumbled "Remember" in Glyph...

Good point! Yes, I believe that; Monica's learned that it's a much more dangerous language than she once knew.
You should be reading the Wapsi Square Wiki.
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Wyvern
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Wyvern »

Fairportfan wrote:It's magic. If we knew how it works, it wouldn't be magic.

True on both sides of the interpretation. Mayahuel might talk about golem engineering for a while without using the word 'magic.' There are plenty of folks to whom televisions, cars, and especially computers are magic.
You should be reading the Wapsi Square Wiki.
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Nimrod
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Nimrod »

Jay-Em wrote:Yes, well, legends about ancient gods, miracles and magic are also full of holes. Your point being?
I do not see a problem. "Magic" can be anything an author wants. Wanna do better? No-one is stopping You from starting Your own, logically sound, web-comic.
Jay-Em obviously does not know who I am or about the strip my wife and I make... but that is OK, I do not see a problem.
Dave wrote:Well, if you're going to ask that all of Wapsi Square be explained purely in terms of "reasonable physics as we know it", you're going to be rather frustrated :P
As an intellectual exercise, though, it's fun to tackle the questions you're raised, and try to resolve them within the framework of Wapsi as Paul has shown it to us.
I was not so much asking that all of Wapsi Square be explained but rather one specific newly demonstrated ability of a single character which I felt had/has some big holes in it as it has some far reaching implications regardless of how it works on the plot and back-story. And as you pointed out creates conflicts or at least multiple "explanations" regarding other characters (Justin) who have been shown to do similar things under similar events and exhibit different outcomes and effects.

It is a lack of consistency if anything - If Monica's regeneration is unique and specific to the distinct mechanisms and circumstances of its activation then simply say that an move on, if not then demonstrate how it actually fits into the Wapsi world "rules" - but if the "rules" can be bent or broken with "magic" then it does not matter and the overall plot is weakened along with the new ability.
Fairportfan wrote:It's magic.
If we knew how it works, it wouldn't be magic.
Do not try to analyse {analyze} it.
By definition, you CANNOT.
A lack of understanding or explanation does not make it by default magic.
Thus it can be analyzed and upon that consideration found to not fit the existing set of explanations.
Whereupon it can be defined as magic because it breaks those sets in some manner.
So, as it breaks the rules of the storyline, it is a rework, ret-con or other device to maneuver out of a plot-hole, dead-end or painting oneself into a corner.

Magic is the lame, weak, sloppy, or lazy get-out-of-jail free card that can be played at any time. The only problem is that now the jail is far less meaningful and the other players start to wonder why they don't have one also... hence the proliferation of powers we have seen in Wapsi these last few months.
MarkN wrote:I am thinking that her memories are more linked to her astral projection than the wetware of mortal brain. So while her body may reset to a default point, her memories will continue unaffected. i am also thinking that she regenerates basic damage without a body-wide reset, but major damage (loss of a heart or brain) causes her to go into full Phoenix mode and she burns up to the default.
Mark - that sound fine to me. Sort of a graduated regen version 1 (Justin-style) for small stuff and regen version 2 (Phoenix-style) for the major stuff. In both cases her memories are being maintained in her astral state and somehow reintegrated post-regen. That works within aspects previously disclosed in the strip, not just recent stuff. It also sets up some more rules to remember and it will be interesting to see if Mr. P follows them and for how long...

It also means that her memories are "stored" elsewhere which opens up more plot possibilities for her and other characters with similar ability.
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by scantrontb »

Wyvern wrote:
Fairportfan wrote:It's magic. If we knew how it works, it wouldn't be magic.

True on both sides of the interpretation. Mayahuel might talk about golem engineering for a while without using the word 'magic.' There are plenty of folks to whom televisions, cars, and especially computers are magic.

Any Sufficiently analyzed magic is Technoloigy
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by jwhouk »

The woman has an astral projection, for cryin' out loud.

Right as she died, while the phoenix blood reboots her body, her spirit does an automatic save on her memories in the "astral plane" (or whatever that little ghosty image was all about). We just didn't see that part after the bloody hand, because it was all done pretty much off-screen. She stepped out, her body regenerated, and FLIP! "You're not stuck like that."
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Julie
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Julie »

Fairportfan wrote:It's magic.

If we knew how it works, it wouldn't be magic.

Do not try to analyse it.

By definition, you CANNOT.

BECAUSE IT'S FRIGGIN' MAGIC!
Someone give FPF a hug...he looks like he could use one. :)
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lake_wrangler
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by lake_wrangler »

Julie wrote:
Fairportfan wrote:By definition, you CANNOT.
BECAUSE IT'S FRIGGIN' MAGIC!
Someone give FPF a hug...he looks like he could use one. :)
I thought that was your job... ;)
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Bathorys Daughter
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Bathorys Daughter »

The thing about "magic" in this story is that many of the things that seemed to be magic at the beginning turn out to be technology of one sort or another. Technology which has a physical basis. For example, using the potential energy from galactic rotation through wormholes and a plutonium energy source. Apparently the blade which is associated with Monica's power of regeneration is something May made using technology she had access to at the time. So, it's reasonable to conjecture that the basis of Monica's renewal also relies on some form of technology. Part of the problem we have speculating here is that we didn't see the process take place so we don't know the steps involved. Did she turn to ash this time or just have astral fire appear around her while she waited outside her body like last time? We don't know. All we know right now is that the things that make her dangerous are the things that we thought and mentioned in previous comments. That and she's really, really peeved about Bud's demonstration. Being killed tends to do that.
Last edited by Bathorys Daughter on Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by lake_wrangler »

Bathorys Daughter wrote:All we know right now is that the things that make her dangerous are the things that we thought and mentioned in previous comments.
Yes indeed. It turns out that what makes her dangerous is the sum of powers we already knew of, added to that of Phoenix regeneration, which seems to make it so the whole powerset is more dangerous than sum of the individual powers. Or something like that.
Bathorys Daughter wrote:That and she's really, really peeved about Bud's demonstration. Being killed tends to do that.
Ha! Where else can you make such a declaration with a straight face!
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Jabberwonky »

Nimrod wrote:Jay-Em obviously does not know who I am or about the strip my wife and I make... but that is OK, I do not see a problem.
Might I inquire what web comic you do? I've been reading WS for a couple of years and did not realize you were the creator of one...
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Bathorys Daughter
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Bathorys Daughter »

Dave wrote:If I remember correctly, Monica had been musing to herself about something she wanted to remember, and then mumbled "Remember" in Glyph... and that was what brought Bud out of her amnesiac state and caused her to remember her role in the destruction of Lanthis. My impression was that this was not a deliberate action on Monica's part, and that she was surprised and rather disturbed by Bud's subsequent emotional breakdown. If I'm right about this (possibly not) this might have caused Monica to be somewhat leery of ever using Glyph without a lot of forethought!
It's worse than that. Looking at that panel, it appears she is simply thinking the word.
lake_wrangler wrote:
Bathorys Daughter wrote:That and she's really, really peeved about Bud's demonstration. Being killed tends to do that.
Ha! Where else can you make such a declaration with a straight face!
The only other place I can think of offhand is in "Death Becomes Her" where Bruce Willis says something like "Took her to the morgue?! She'll be really mad!"
A society should not be judged on how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals... ~ Fyodor Dostoevsky.
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Dave
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Dave »

lake_wrangler wrote:
Bathorys Daughter wrote:That and she's really, really peeved about Bud's demonstration. Being killed tends to do that.
Ha! Where else can you make such a declaration with a straight face!
Well... you can do it on certain television shows, such as Frylander: The Phoenix (coming soon to the Immortals Channel on your local cable or satellite network).
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Opus the Poet »

Bathorys Daughter wrote:That and she's really, really peeved about Bud's demonstration. Being killed tends to do that.
That's what I keep telling people about my personality, but they just kind of laugh it off.
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by Leak »

Dave wrote:It's one of the very strange quirks of American culture, that children are not allowed to see the unclothed human body (even in a non-sexual context), but are permitted to see some very graphic violence, torture, and death (the standards for a "PG-13" movie or game can include some rather gruesome depictions).
Good thing that's not also true for all American web comics - case in point: The Meek which out-of-the-blue started updating again after a long-ish hiatus...
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Re: Nice and Tan 2012-10-16

Post by bmonk »

Dave wrote:
Nimrod wrote:OK, so why does she remember anything? ... She would not - as memory is a physical configuration in the brain.
Well, if you're going to ask that all of Wapsi Square be explained purely in terms of "reasonable physics as we know it", you're going to be rather frustrated :P

As an intellectual exercise, though, it's fun to tackle the questions you're raised, and try to resolve them within the framework of Wapsi as Paul has shown it to us.

So... memory, and memory loss. There's one good example of memory working as you say it should - Epimetheus/Justin. We've been told that he lost his memory, as the result of a severe skull injury (Excedrin Headache #357 or the like). His brain grew back, but he lost his memories in the process.

We've seen Justin's immortality / healing power at work a couple of times. It appears to be an incremental re-growth process... damaged or destroyed tissues grow back from the parts of his body not destroyed. The man is a (para)human starfish ;) and it seems possible that all of his regrown tissues are in a largely "blank slate" state. So, memory loss isn't unreasonable.
This also happened to a character in Jennifer Fallon's Tide Lords series. An immortal lost his head--on purpose--but regenerated, only without any memories. Havoc ensues.
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