Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Need to talk about the day's episode of Wapsi? This is the place to do it. Play nice! ^_^

Moderators: Bookworm, starkruzr, MrFireDragon, PrettyPrincess, Wapsi

Forum rules
When two threads are posted for a day's comic, the thread posted first becomes the starting post. Please delete the second thread and add your post to the first thread. When naming the thread: Comic Name YYYY-MM-DD
Thanks guys! This keeps the forum nice and neat.
User avatar
DilyV
Posts: 1768
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:03 pm

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by DilyV »

TheOtherOne wrote:Yep, as I thought. Paul's going for ratings. When someone does that they go either of two ways (or both). Sex or/and slaughter. Paul has done the sex thing to death lately, so he's changing gears and going for slaughter. It seems guards come out of the woodwork in these things. And they are always totally inept. They just stand there waiting to be attacked instead of spraying bullets right off. Do they ever get any actual training? Doesn't seem like it. One would think they would be paranormals in this case, but they appear to be the usual ineffective humans. Makes you wonder why guys sign up for that sort of "work". And, of course, there will be the "workers" to kill as well. There is usually no shortage of soon-to-be-dead bodies in these situations. And, of course, to really do the job, reader wise, the killings have to be gruesome to boot. No simple being shot will do. Still, you got to wonder, why isn't she using a gun? And why don't the guards have a helmet capable of withstanding a blade? But then they never do. Like the total body armor in Star Wars. It does no good whatsoever. Why wear it?

Gotta wonder if this is a suicide mission though. What happens when she presses the "button?" Could be everyone dies regardless so she just hurries things up for some. And will hubby show up at just the right moment to save her life? That's what also usually happens. At the least, pick up the mantle and finish what she started.

Stay tuned fans, the action has just started.
Let's see here... Point by point...

1. Paul's going for Ratings: So? Isn't that the idea behind these webcomics? Why read them if there isn't some action every now and again? Would you read a book about the minute to minute, day to day goings on of say, your own life?

2. Paul has done the sex thing to death lately: Not so. I'm not sure Paul has really addressed the sex thing much in this Comic... Specific references I can remember... Mon straddling Kevin with her pixie haircut, Shelly talking about banging the brains out of her boy toy... Sexual situations but not exactly sex includes Mon and Jet's kiss and Atsali kissing both Nadette and Berdine. All of this was spread out over fifteen years of strip so far. As far as I can remember, there has been no overt sex in this strip.

3. Badguys being totally inept: That's a standard foil for light hearted stories like this that include this kind of action... The baddies in Austin Powers and yes, even Star Wars have gotten this treatment. To be honest, if I were the Empire in Star Wars, I'd go back to Clone Troopers... they were much better trained. I'll address the Storm Trooper's armor here as well... it's not meant to be ARMOR... it's meant to be scary and intimidating...

(Joke... A Star Wars Storm Trooper and a Star Trek Redshirt shoot at each other... do either survive? Of course not! The Redshirt always hits something before he dies (and he always dies), and the last thing through the Storm Troopers mind (before the phaser blast) is "wow... I finally hit something!")

4. Leucoisa is an adult Siren. As a Paranormal, she has survival instincts hard wired into her genome. Throughout the ages, Paras have had to defend themselves when stumbled upon by outside (norm) entities. Depending on her age, maybe the knife is what she's best trained at fighting with. Remember Obi-Wan's disgust at having to use the blaster to kill General Grievous. "So uncivilized." When you've been trained since child hood to use a blade (light saber or otherwise) guns would seem uncivilized... though I assume she is well versed in their use.

5. Young Atsali was told to go in the family room and push the red button and read her books... I'm not so sure that red button is a kill all scenario. It sounds an awful lot like a safe room to me... the red button activation seals the room, protecting Atsali while leaving mom to deal with the nastiness outside. Granted, this does feel like a suicide mission on Leucoisa's part, but she's not going down without a fight. In the words of one of the A-Team sergeants describing Captain Nihm's death in camp A-107 in the movie The Green Berets: "He didn't make it but he took a lot of 'em with him."

There has been violence in this strip from time to time... Mon's "Face Off" Bia shredding some Egyptian looking dude's guards, Phix eating Medea and Phix discussing taking Shelly our for a "rack'o'ribs"... Paras aren't annoying little shits like tinkerbell in Peter Pan... they tend to be alpha predators. Civilized Alpha Predators, but capable of horrible things when pushed to it.

IMO, Paul does a really good job of balancing the different aspects of the story. Sometimes it gets a little long in the tooth, but there is the limitation of telling a story in strip form that sometimes takes a long time to get everything across that you feel is important in the story. In the end, it all fits and you've had fun along the way. Look at Grrlpower... That's been going on a few years yet only two days or so have passed in the strip. (Loves me some Harem... hehehe)
You know that light at the end of the tunnel?

Yeah... it's a bullet. Sorry.
User avatar
meisdadoo
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:15 am
Location: Neither here nor there

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by meisdadoo »

I can only think of two reasons why "Mama Bear" has not transformed into her true form (there may be other reasons, but I can't imagine what they would be)

1. There is no need to transform, she can take care of things in her human form

and/or

2. She does not want to reveal her true form to attackers that are obviously wearing transmitting vision optics that let whoever sent them see and record what is happening.

Also, regarding the previous rant from a reader that is either having a really bad day, and/or just doesn't understand how sci-fi and comics work. The purpose of sci-fi (aka science fiction) is to create imagined and unreal scenarios that have plots/points that relate to the real world, whereby the reader can empathize with the characters etc. Even though they may have superpowers that make Mary Sue jealous, they still have anxiety and stress, love and hate, etc common to the human experience. To that end, the conquering of villains is essential. In real life we cannot hurt our enemies without consequences--in fiction they can have their faces ripped off and die all manner of horrible deaths--even come back from the dead occasionally--to satisfy the secret desires of the readers heart. Everyone, without exception, at one time or another has wanted to just rip someone's head off--figuratively speaking of course. This facet of fiction requires an endless supply of nameless villains, and redshirts, to provide meaning, purpose and gratuitous violence that makes the whole genre so popular. Comics use graphic depictions to tell what would otherwise bee a lengthy story indeed. A picture is worth a thousand words and all that. So yes, the comics depicting violence tend to get a little gory---it can't be helped, that is how the genre works. If you don't like the genres, kindly go back to the non-fiction area of the library. All that negativity is harshing my buzz.

Final point, the armor that the Star Wars stormtroopers wear does have two purposes. The first one is stated by the author(s) as being protection from most projectile weapons, glancing blaster shots, toxic environments, radiation, heat, cold, and limited exposure to the vacuum of space. The helmets have limited field of vision but compensate with motion detectors and thermal imaging allowing them to see in smoke, dust, dark etc. all of that (and more) can be found at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_armor

The second, less obvious purpose is that it hides their identities from the audience, so that you don't mind them getting killed by the "good guys" because good guys don't go around killing people, they kill nameless faceless enemies. Nobody gave a rats patootie about trooper Finn until he took his helmet off and they saw his face . . .just sayin.
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
User avatar
Dave
Posts: 7586
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by Dave »

DilyV wrote:
TheOtherOne wrote:Yep, as I thought. Paul's going for ratings.
Let's see here... Point by point...

1. Paul's going for Ratings: So? Isn't that the idea behind these webcomics? Why read them if there isn't some action every now and again? Would you read a book about the minute to minute, day to day goings on of say, your own life?
Personally, I think it's a mistake for anyone to flat-out claim that Paul is running a particular strip for a specific reason.
  • None of us know what Paul's intent or motivation is. None of us here is Paul (except when he speaks up directly). All the rest of us can do is guess, speculate, and opine. Only Paul has the privilege or right to say What Is, within the canon he is creating, or (if he chooses) why he's choosing to have it that way.
  • I think it's rare for anyone to have just a single, pure motivation or incentive to do anything major. There are almost always multiple factors which end up leading us in a particular direction. Within the strip writing, Paul has frequently demonstrated some very deep and complex plotting skills... it's not a simple strip... so why jump to the conclusion that his motivation for a week's plotline is just "ratings"?
Now, if someone were to write

"Hmmm. Action and violence. That's a faster pacing than the strip has had lately, and I think it might push up the strip's ratings. Action and violence are always popular."

I'd probably agree... it's based on observation of the strip, observation of common reactions among readers, and states the writer's personal conclusion about the possible consequences. But, to say,

"Paul's going for ratings."

Well, I find that rather simplistic, and more than a bit arrogant. Unless the writer of it is a Level 3 telepath (or above), I don't think s/he has the right to state it as a fact.
Opus the Poet wrote:Also, I'm getting the feeling that Paul is world-building for the next arc that will be something like the calendar machine in length. That one took 2001 through 2006 to set up, then '06 - '10 to complete. What I'm saying is WoG is Atsali becomes a YA adventure writer of her fictionalized autobiography, this is setting up for her next adventure, but a really long one.
And that's the sort of comment I really respect... it's stated as a personal conclusion, and (I think) it's well based in the history of the strip. Paul's writing often takes a long time to develop certain points. Consider the fact that we've known that Atsali was orphaned for two and a half years, and this is the first real fleshing-out of that part of her back-story we've seen. It's also tying her parents' death into the "Creation of an anti-Fae weapon lifeform" thread, which dates back somewhere around a year or more.

My guess (willing to be wrong :) ) is that Paul had a lot of this basic plot sequence roughed out in his head long ago... perhaps even before Atsali was first introduced over three years ago.
meisdadoo wrote:The second, less obvious purpose is that it hides their identities from the audience, so that you don't mind them getting killed by the "good guys" because good guys don't go around killing people, they kill nameless faceless enemies.
Yup. The tradition of portraying The Enemy as identity-less "spear carriers" probably dates back at least as far as writing... I'd guess it goes back to storytellers hunched around a fire out in the desert, telling of their tribe's battles with the tribe on the next hill over.

One very blatant, not-too-long-ago example comes to mind: watch the movie "Top Gun". The Soviet (or Russian) pilots are portrayed as skillful opponents... but every one of them wore a helmet with a heavily-smoked blackout visor. We were never allowed to see any of their faces. All of the American pilots wore clear visors and were easily recognizable.
Gingerninja
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 4:12 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by Gingerninja »

What if it's a dream/nightmare flashback Atsali is having?
I would eat your soul, but I'd prefer to keep my lunch down.
User avatar
AnotherFairportfan
Posts: 6402
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 2:53 pm

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by AnotherFairportfan »

DilyV wrote:In the words of one of the A-Team sergeants describing Captain Nihm's death in camp A-107 in the movie The Green Berets: "He didn't make it but he took a lot of 'em with him."
Or, in the words of Garth Ennis's Chinese hitman, Ringo, in the Hitman comic: "Tommy - when they send you to Hell, make sure you take some dogs with you."
Proof Positive the world is not flat: If it were, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.
User avatar
oldmanmickey
Posts: 1656
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:41 pm

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by oldmanmickey »

IMHO people like this person just make comments to get attention. I find it best to just ignore them and delete them from existence.
Dear, don’t bore him with trivia or burden him with your past mistakes. The happiest way to deal with a man is never to tell him anything he does not need to know. L. Long
User avatar
Just Old Al
Posts: 1684
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:43 am
Location: Wilderness of Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by Just Old Al »

oldmanmickey wrote:IMHO people like this person just make comments to get attention. I find it best to just ignore them and delete them from existence.
Or in the modern parlance, "Don't feed the troll."
"The Empire was founded on cups of tea, mate, and if you think I am going to war without one you are sadly mistaken."
User avatar
DilyV
Posts: 1768
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:03 pm

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by DilyV »

I'm sort of partial to the action sequences... seeing what characters are capable of... Suzie became much more interesting sitting in the chief's office covered in a perp's blood... even more so when she blew out Lily's knees then tackled her and got in her face.
You know that light at the end of the tunnel?

Yeah... it's a bullet. Sorry.
User avatar
lake_wrangler
Posts: 4300
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:16 am
Location: Laval, Québec, Canada

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by lake_wrangler »

Just Old Al wrote:
oldmanmickey wrote:IMHO people like this person just make comments to get attention. I find it best to just ignore them and delete them from existence.
Or in the modern parlance, "Don't feed the troll."
I have to admit, though that he got me curious: what ratings, exactly? TopWebcomics (vote for WS! :mrgreen: ) is an always ongoing thing, renewing each month, so it can't be that (particularly since you would want to take advantage of all the votes you can, by starting such a story arc near the beginning of the month, I think). So what else is there? Is there some sort of Spring Ratings Sweep somewhere, or something? That just don't make sense to me. :?
Last edited by lake_wrangler on Tue May 24, 2016 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chicgeek
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:45 pm

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by chicgeek »

Two things we can safely say-
Mama Bear is in humanform and not full siren for a reason.
Mama Bear will do anything to protect her child.

So, either we will see her as a full siren later, if the foe's too much to handle as human.
Or, she stays human form, even to being murdered in that form.
And if she stays human, even if that means losing her life-somehow it's for Atsali. Maybe if her true form is revealed, that would make Atsali a threat to be put down, not a helpless child there's no reason to kill.
Obviously the foe sees her as a threat. But do they know just what she is?
And Dad's on his way home. I have a bad feeling about this. We already know this is a story with a sad ending. I don't know if he'll be in time to fight, or arrive to see her taken down, or some twist Paul's thought of that we can't imagine. Heck, I'm going to make a wild prediction.
Dad rushes home-Mom's dead, the enemy's cleared out. Or Mom's dead, the surviving mooks are in the house, and he kills them. He goes to the safe room, gets Atsali, and takes her somewhere to be safe. The Library? A friend? The orphanage? Then, he goes after Mom's killers, and is killed himself.
Heh, who knows how it'll play out? Paul's full of surprises. But it's interesting to 'what if' sometimes.
User avatar
Dave
Posts: 7586
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by Dave »

chicgeek wrote:But it's interesting to 'what if' sometimes.
What if: Kevin is Atsali's father, suffering from a really bad case of amnesia?
User avatar
Just Old Al
Posts: 1684
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:43 am
Location: Wilderness of Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by Just Old Al »

Dave wrote:
chicgeek wrote:But it's interesting to 'what if' sometimes.
What if: Kevin is Atsali's father, suffering from a really bad case of amnesia?
EEEEyeah...no. Don't force me to sic the Pun Jar on you.

This is not "Telanovela Wapsi Square", Dave.
"The Empire was founded on cups of tea, mate, and if you think I am going to war without one you are sadly mistaken."
User avatar
lake_wrangler
Posts: 4300
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:16 am
Location: Laval, Québec, Canada

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by lake_wrangler »

Just Old Al wrote:
Dave wrote:
chicgeek wrote:But it's interesting to 'what if' sometimes.
What if: Kevin is Atsali's father, suffering from a really bad case of amnesia?
EEEEyeah...no. Don't force me to sic the Pun Jar on you.

This is not "Telanovela Wapsi Square", Dave.
I fail to see what the Pun Jar would have to do with that one...
chicgeek
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:45 pm

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by chicgeek »

Okay, where's the pun hiding? I don't see it either...
User avatar
Dave
Posts: 7586
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by Dave »

Al is simply aware that the Pun Jar and I have a long, and occasionally tortured relationship. He probably figured that it might be predisposed to gnaw on my ankles, if invited to do so.
chicgeek
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:45 pm

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by chicgeek »

*nods sagely* They're tricky like that.
User avatar
lake_wrangler
Posts: 4300
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:16 am
Location: Laval, Québec, Canada

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by lake_wrangler »

THE PUN JAR MUST NEVER BE USED FOR PERSONAL GAIN OR INTEREST! THIS SHALL NEVER DO! CEASE AND DESIST! NOW!

Or else, I'll sic the pun jar on you...
chicgeek
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:45 pm

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by chicgeek »

Dave wrote:Al is simply aware that the Pun Jar and I have a long, and occasionally tortured relationship. He probably figured that it might be predisposed to gnaw on my ankles, if invited to do so.
So it's a Pun Jaw?
*drops a set of wind up teeth into the pun jar*
User avatar
Sgt. Howard
Posts: 3332
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:54 pm
Location: Malott, Washington

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by Sgt. Howard »

Kevin? Amnesia? after getting Lecouisa Pregnant?... Dave, do they make an Amnesia that strong?
Rule 17 of the Bombay Golf Course- "You shall play the ball where the monkey drops it,"
I speak fluent Limrick-
the Old Sgt.
User avatar
Opus the Poet
Posts: 2456
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:24 am
Location: Surrounded by Hell
Contact:

Re: Mama Bear 2016-05-24

Post by Opus the Poet »

chicgeek wrote:Okay, where's the pun hiding? I don't see it either...
Highlight under the quote to reveal background colored text.
I ride my bike to ride my bike, and sometimes it takes me where I need to go.
Post Reply