Show It To You 2015-08-24

[Vitrbjorn]

LINKY

High school pecking order. Exert dominance over others to climb the ladder.

I'm built like a boxer (broad shoulders & deep chest), but i'm short and was very socially awkward in high school. So I got picked on a lot. My older brother helped shield me from some of it, but what made it stop was when I lost my temper one very bad day and put a damn good dent in my locker.

It was only whispers and rumors after that.

Been there and done that, I am skinny and do not look like I could dead lift 200 pounds, which I can. When I am mad I rip lockers apart barehanded.

[MerchManDan]

I'm built like a boxer (broad shoulders & deep chest), but i'm short and was very socially awkward in high school. So I got picked on a lot. My older brother helped shield me from some of it, but what made it stop was when I lost my temper one very bad day and put a damn good dent in my locker.

It was only whispers and rumors after that.

Been there and done that, I am skinny and do not look like I could dead lift 200 pounds, which I can. When I am mad I rip lockers apart barehanded.

My own breaking point came in grade 9, when I put my fist through a plate glass window. Not really a punch, more like a karate chop but with my hand closed.

[tophoo]

Oh, joy- depressed-teen-as-bearer-of-immense-dark/unholy/alien-power.
I guess the author hasn't yet stooped to suicide as brinkmanship for who's got the most drama. That's a good thing- except the whole Sword of Damocles effect.
...huh. It appears I am a little bitter of the whole thing with Atsali.

[DilyV]

Devyn seems to be able to externalize her inner feelings... making them see what a dark and scary place they send her when they pick on her... I have to wonder what the really hard part is for her... showing that to them, or keeping it all internalized so they don't see it?

[Sgt. Howard]

Oh, joy- depressed-teen-as-bearer-of-immense-dark/unholy/alien-power.
I guess the author hasn't yet stooped to suicide as brinkmanship for who's got the most drama. That's a good thing- except the whole Sword of Damocles effect.
...huh. It appears I am a little bitter of the whole thing with Atsali.

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/from-her-past/

I beg to differ- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/from-her-past/

[Dave]

Devyn seems to be able to externalize her inner feelings... making them see what a dark and scary place they send her when they pick on her... I have to wonder what the really hard part is for her... showing that to them, or keeping it all internalized so they don't see it?

What she's said during the last two strips implies the latter, I think. If she doesn't actively fight to suppress The Blues, those around her get inked.

Another question to ponder: is this dark depression something general in Devyn's psychological make-up, or is this the result of some specific traumatic event in her past? The chain-link fence image suggests that she feels trapped... was there a time when she was literally trapped and fenced in, somehow?

[Mark N]

What she's said during the last two strips implies the latter, I think. If she doesn't actively fight to suppress The Blues, those around her get inked.

Another question to ponder: is this dark depression something general in Devyn's psychological make-up, or is this the result of some specific traumatic event in her past? The chain-link fence image suggests that she feels trapped... was there a time when she was literally trapped and fenced in, somehow?

I am guessing the fenced in feeling is the hiding of the paras from the non-paras. That is judging by her conversation a few days ago about Dark Matter.

[Typeminer]

I had to go back and check the image--it's definitely wire fencing. But that pattern does sort of resemble a fishing net.

[tophoo]

Oh, joy- depressed-teen-as-bearer-of-immense-dark/unholy/alien-power.
I guess the author hasn't yet stooped to suicide as brinkmanship for who's got the most drama. That's a good thing- except the whole Sword of Damocles effect.
...huh. It appears I am a little bitter of the whole thing with Atsali.

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/from-her-past/

I beg to differ- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/from-her-past/

Sorry I wasn't clear, sarn't. What I meant was, now that 'sali has divulged her astounding list of impossibly combined mental maladies, I was speculating that a Devyn cutting/suicide story line was probable from the author in order to one-up himself in the next 'Woes of Our Lives' arc.

And here's the thing that really, really burns me up, man- all the nonsense about 'sali's brain- and it is nonsense- if you look into all of those disorders, a few of them take place in radically different places in the brain. I'm not sure any of her malfunctions are psychological in nature- so she was almost certainly born unable to recognize emotional cues in others. Some are neurological, some.. neurochemical, some caused by mind gremlins, etc.
Frankly, the kid would probably have to be lobotomized multiple times to pull that off- assuming she wasn't vegetative, she'd appear to be so far down the Autism scale that she'd be hopeless to ever connect to anybody. There's a very good chance that she'd never learn to smile, and that she'd speak in monotone.
Anyway- through all that crap, we haven't read a damned thing about how she feels about the death of her parents. Impossible to brush off as anything other than a huge factor in who she is, and her entire backstory.. and is brushed off- is only her backstory, with no apparent connection to the character we've been reading about.
The real tragedy of this kid's life, and a great source of emotional narrative has been dismissed in favor of.. nonsense. And pretty much retconned nonsense, at that.

<sigh> Sorry- this was not my intended response. But now that I've typed, I'll be damned if I won't post it.
The point is, the 'sali drama has soured me enough to expect something.. over the top with Devyn. You know- the one her friend described as the most "self-confident and outgoing" at the pool?

[GlytchMeister]

Atsali isn't human.
She's not even part human.
She's part Succubus and part Siren. At no point is it logical to assume her neurological structure is at all similar to that of a human. Nor is it at all safe to assume her psychological makeup functions, reacts, and grows like a human. To say her mental illnesses are an impossible combination while drawing from knowledge of human neurology and psychology is like having a diesel mechanic tell you one of the pistons of your antimatter-fueled warp drive needs a new glow plug... and the warp drive doesn't even have a single piston.

As for the death of her parents: It's entirely possible it isn't that big a deal for her, seeing as she is a Siren/Succubus. Even if it was; did you ever stop and consider the possibility that she's blocked that out? Its a thing that happens. Maybe Siren/Succubi do it a lot. Or maybe she's already grown through the death of her parents, and it is no longer a source of conflict in her story.

I'm not going to pretend to know, because I'm not an expert in Siren/Succubus Hybrid neurology and psychology. Even if I was a Doctor of the Human versions, I would have absolutely no credibility in this matter.

Hell, Atsali's behavior might be completely normal for her kind, seeing as she's descended from two different kinds of predatory species with strong sexual characteristics in their hunting patterns. A predator doesn't care about the feelings of its prey; it just wants to eat. A sapient predatory being might not be equipped with a strong ability to sympathize/empathize simply because such an ability would interfere with their survival.

In my opinion (see signature for disclaimer), it's probably best to keep an open mind and try to suspend disbelief. Otherwise, it might be a little difficult to enjoy the comic.
...
and if you don't want to do that, and you end up not enjoying the comic? Stop reading. Simple as that.

[Julie]

Wait...did we learn that her parents are actually dead? Because for some reason I thought she'd just been abandoned or something. :/

[Dave]

Wait...did we learn that her parents are actually dead? Because for some reason I thought she'd just been abandoned or something. :/

You're thinking of Castela. Her parents abandoned her... apparently under coersion by the Fae.

According to Pickle, Atsali's parents are dead. We don't yet know how or why.

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/threw-me-away/

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/daughter-of-a-blackthorn/

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/ancient-guardians/

[Julie]

Thanks for clarifying!

[tophoo]

Atsali isn't human.
She's not even part human.
She's part Succubus and part Siren. At no point is it logical to assume her neurological structure is at all similar to that of a human. Nor is it at all safe to assume her psychological makeup functions, reacts, and grows like a human. To say her mental illnesses are an impossible combination while drawing from knowledge of human neurology and psychology is like having a diesel mechanic tell you one of the pistons of your antimatter-fueled warp drive needs a new glow plug... and the warp drive doesn't even have a single piston.

As for the death of her parents: It's entirely possible it isn't that big a deal for her, seeing as she is a Siren/Succubus. Even if it was; did you ever stop and consider the possibility that she's blocked that out? Its a thing that happens. Maybe Siren/Succubi do it a lot. Or maybe she's already grown through the death of her parents, and it is no longer a source of conflict in her story.

I'm not going to pretend to know, because I'm not an expert in Siren/Succubus Hybrid neurology and psychology. Even if I was a Doctor of the Human versions, I would have absolutely no credibility in this matter.

Hell, Atsali's behavior might be completely normal for her kind, seeing as she's descended from two different kinds of predatory species with strong sexual characteristics in their hunting patterns. A predator doesn't care about the feelings of its prey; it just wants to eat. A sapient predatory being might not be equipped with a strong ability to sympathize/empathize simply because such an ability would interfere with their survival.

In my opinion (see signature for disclaimer), it's probably best to keep an open mind and try to suspend disbelief. Otherwise, it might be a little difficult to enjoy the comic.
...
and if you don't want to do that, and you end up not enjoying the comic? Stop reading. Simple as that.

Fair warning: Toootally tl/dr


Srsly, dude?
She interacts with humans and paras just like a human, except when it's narratively convenient for her not to. Tell me her behavior prior to her saying, "My brain's all 'sploded!" matches the 'splosion symptoms she described at the pool. Not so much, from where I'm sitting. Was she a bit clueless, a bit oblivious?- sure. Emotionally incompatible with humans and every other para we've seen? Not at all.
As for her actual brain function, chemistry, etc.- If her mind was as alien to humanity as you suggest, she would seem, well, utterly alien. If this was intended when the character was introduced, it was a.. bizarre way to develop the character.

True, her mom's species is an.. attack-oriented.. sexual predator, but incubi have generally always been portrayed as seducers, just like succubi. While her mom's brain might cause her to be.. disconnected from her prey, her dad's would at least be aware of human feelings and expressions of same, even if they don't feel them towards their prey. And I seriously doubt members of different species just hooked up and had a kid with no real emotion but predatory instinct towards each other- two competing predators)involved. It'd be like.. two berserk Borg going at it. "Greetings. Science says our species cannot interbreed. Let us attempt to generate spawn." "Skrraw!" *pounce, crash , predatory sex scene- probably biting and clawing involved*

You can't say, "Maybe an incubus is different in this setting!" because since we've never seen one, we can only fall back on the lore we know. Much of your response suggests she would almost certainly be wired to be a sociopath by human standards- none of her behavior suggests that is the case.
Since we've never seen a para so far removed from human psychology (including the Barista Convocation) as to seem completely alien or inscrutable, it would be sloppy for the reader to assume that anyone portrayed in the comic is unknowable simply because the author hasn't gotten Freudian or throw a wall of exposition (like has become) yet. Atsali's brain, given the character we've come to know, is human enough for the reader to make some safe assumptions.

So. Would her brain be other than human? Sure. But it should be close enough- especially from being partly raised among several different types of paras- that we should have seen any serious strangeness from the beginning. If nothing else, a fumble of the emotions she'd observed, but was merely mimicking.

Stop reading. Simple as that.

What is it with you guys? "Stop reading," "You try writing it!" "It's Paul's comic- STFU, noob!1", whatever.

There isn't a damn thing wrong with offering criticism and critique to an author. I say I've got a problem with the way the author has handled certain things and you lot tell me I should fuck off. Y'all are so, so very internet about this- a rabid, mindless fanmob about a perceived threat to your precious.. This is a webcomic, right?
Paul has a far different relationship with his audience than a print author- namely, we have some access to him, while he tells the story. Whether some useful interaction comes from that is up to him. But the readers always have a stake in the story. An author has a responsibility to his/her story, his characters, and his audience. It's his baby, but it's for us.

"You try writing it"
This one pisses me off- it makes sloppy assumptions in its attempt to be condescending.
I have.
Don't misunderstand me- I'm not comparing my work to Paul's. The adventures of the Imperial 3rd Composite Cavalry (It was too informal for an actual title) and Wapsi Square are very different things. So, when I was deployed to Bosnia, and later Kosovo, I wrote a couple of military scifi serials for my buddies to stave off boredom for me and them. Now, this was no big deal- just something for fun. But I managed a story, a little bit at a time, to a comparatively small audience that I had access to for critique and kudos, if I chose to. Sort of like, like- oh, right bloody here.
As I said- not the same thing. But I sharpened my skills, I built my understanding of narrative convention, character development and the bloody art of maintaining a coherent plot while executing it in small chunks.
So, yeah- I succeeded at writing it. I have an understanding of the author's efforts and the hurdles he faces. I respect what he's going through, and I think if more people here thought about what they read and reached out to try to aid the author, maybe great things could happen. Most of that would depend on Paul. But much of that would require some of y'all to ease up on the trigger towards complaints, criticism and critique .
The whole "Here's my counter argument, and if you don't agree, go away" really isn't doing anyone any good.

I'm speaking my mind in hopes that on some tiny, infinitesimal chance Paul might see it and maybe, just maybe look at recent events from another perspective. I don't want to run the story- Paul's charge here.
I just feel he got sloppy with a character, and I'm pointing out how I see it.

Screw preview. Submit.
Yeah, I know- sorry about that.