Imagine That 2015-05-29

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Akeche
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Akeche » Fri May 29, 2015 9:17 pm

Boxilar wrote: My bet is someone's mom who is upset with Atsali's unintentional rise to Queen Bee status at the school. Human mothers have taken out hits on their daughter's rivals in the real world. While 'Sali is self conscious about her looks, the fact is, she is stunningly beautiful, well liked and respected (partly for who she knows, but that's through no fault or design of her own) and is rising fast in supernatural circles. I can see a jealous mom trying to take her down a peg.

In fact, I'll go out on a limb and make a call. Jessie's mom is the complainer. It fits. From her perspective, Atsali's rise and associations knocked her daughter out of her Queen Bee slot. Something Jess was actually relieved by. But from previous conversations, Jessie's mom would be livid.

Because Jessie's mom, does not in fact, have it going on.
That's certainly another possibility. In those preppy/cool kid/popular circles the parents can oftentimes be more vicious than the kids. Speaking of vicious, it's a damned good thing that Atsali is such a nice girl by nature. Given the kind of power she has to throw around when she essentially hulks(birds) out, the fact that the girl can keep her cool is admirable. Though on the other hand, it's sad that the few times she has lost her cool has been with her own family.

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scantrontb
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by scantrontb » Fri May 29, 2015 9:18 pm

Brasten wrote:And there it is. There's the logic tear down one can achieve with good Debate training. Verbally latching onto the throat of your opponent, and not letting up until you've stripped them of all their possible escapes. Then adding even more hurt with "oh, and I'm telling Uncle. (aka Your Boss's Boss)." Well messenger figuratively shot, then drawn and quartered.

Who's ready for round 2 with the "originator" of the "complaint?" :twisted:

the only flaw i can see with that logic is that the "i'm telling Uncle" is ONLY effective if the yellee is aware that Devyn is the boss's boss's neice... if he thinks that she's "just another stupid kid that hangs out here a lot" then that portion of her rebuttal goes out the window. right NOW he's reacting to an angry girl getting up in his grill, that may not be how he actually ends up, since we have to wait until Monday to find out what happens after she stops raking him over the coals...
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Boxilar
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Boxilar » Fri May 29, 2015 9:20 pm

Akeche wrote:
Boxilar wrote: My bet is someone's mom who is upset with Atsali's unintentional rise to Queen Bee status at the school. Human mothers have taken out hits on their daughter's rivals in the real world. While 'Sali is self conscious about her looks, the fact is, she is stunningly beautiful, well liked and respected (partly for who she knows, but that's through no fault or design of her own) and is rising fast in supernatural circles. I can see a jealous mom trying to take her down a peg.

In fact, I'll go out on a limb and make a call. Jessie's mom is the complainer. It fits. From her perspective, Atsali's rise and associations knocked her daughter out of her Queen Bee slot. Something Jess was actually relieved by. But from previous conversations, Jessie's mom would be livid.

Because Jessie's mom, does not in fact, have it going on.
That's certainly another possibility. In those preppy/cool kid/popular circles the parents can oftentimes be more vicious than the kids. Speaking of vicious, it's a damned good thing that Atsali is such a nice girl by nature. Given the kind of power she has to throw around when she essentially hulks(birds) out, the fact that the girl can keep her cool is admirable. Though on the other hand, it's sad that the few times she has lost her cool has been with her own family.
I sorta want to see her lose it on someone who deserves it. But only sorta, because if she were pushed to that point, she'd be seriously stressed, and she'd be mortified afterwards.

Akeche
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Akeche » Fri May 29, 2015 9:27 pm

Boxilar wrote:
Akeche wrote:
Boxilar wrote: My bet is someone's mom who is upset with Atsali's unintentional rise to Queen Bee status at the school. Human mothers have taken out hits on their daughter's rivals in the real world. While 'Sali is self conscious about her looks, the fact is, she is stunningly beautiful, well liked and respected (partly for who she knows, but that's through no fault or design of her own) and is rising fast in supernatural circles. I can see a jealous mom trying to take her down a peg.

In fact, I'll go out on a limb and make a call. Jessie's mom is the complainer. It fits. From her perspective, Atsali's rise and associations knocked her daughter out of her Queen Bee slot. Something Jess was actually relieved by. But from previous conversations, Jessie's mom would be livid.

Because Jessie's mom, does not in fact, have it going on.
That's certainly another possibility. In those preppy/cool kid/popular circles the parents can oftentimes be more vicious than the kids. Speaking of vicious, it's a damned good thing that Atsali is such a nice girl by nature. Given the kind of power she has to throw around when she essentially hulks(birds) out, the fact that the girl can keep her cool is admirable. Though on the other hand, it's sad that the few times she has lost her cool has been with her own family.
I sorta want to see her lose it on someone who deserves it. But only sorta, because if she were pushed to that point, she'd be seriously stressed, and she'd be mortified afterwards.
We did see her suddenly channel 20 years of fighting games when 'meeting' Tsillah's mom, so even when not going full berserker she's pretty capable.

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Sgt. Howard
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Sgt. Howard » Fri May 29, 2015 10:51 pm

There's something you are not aware-a
so here will I plainly declair-a
the Frenchman here shows
quite 'limp-wristed' pose
and seems to be wearing mascar-a

If my observations bear weight
then the problem stems from the ingrate
who seems to be vexed
by his left-handed sex
and a view of the ladies with hate

So do not fall to this decievage
and know what you truly belivage-
that 'froggys' demise
will come in the guise
of smothering in Atsali's cleavage...

... oh death, where is thy sting? Oh grave, where thy victory?
Rule 17 of the Bombay Golf Course- "You shall play the ball where the monkey drops it,"
I speak fluent Limrick-
the Old Sgt.

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DilyV
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by DilyV » Fri May 29, 2015 11:24 pm

Sgt. Howard wrote:There's something you are not aware-a
so here will I plainly declair-a
the Frenchman here shows
quite 'limp-wristed' pose
and seems to be wearing mascar-a

If my observations bear weight
then the problem stems from the ingrate
who seems to be vexed
by his left-handed sex
and a view of the ladies with hate

So do not fall to this decievage
and know what you truly belivage-
that 'froggys' demise
will come in the guise
of smothering in Atsali's cleavage...

... oh death, where is thy sting? Oh grave, where thy victory?
Death by boobies... we haven't seen that on Final Destination yet!!!
You know that light at the end of the tunnel?

Yeah... it's a bullet. Sorry.

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scantrontb
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by scantrontb » Sat May 30, 2015 12:33 am

DilyV wrote:Death by boobies... we haven't seen that on Final Destination yet!!!

Nah, they're saving it up for the third installment of the "Faces of Death" movie...
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Warrl
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Warrl » Sat May 30, 2015 1:21 am

Tenjen wrote:Alright, see this thing some of the posters are talking about "inherent sexuality". that isnt a thing.
As one can tell by the fact that the human race went extinct a long time ago.

The problem is not with people seeing other people as sexual beings. Most people over about age 12 (and some younger) are, to some degree, sexual beings.

The problem is with people seeing other people as just sexual beings, and little to nothing else. There is approximately nobody who is not a great deal more than that.

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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Gavote » Sat May 30, 2015 3:24 am

Akeche wrote:
Boxilar wrote: My bet is someone's mom who is upset with Atsali's unintentional rise to Queen Bee status at the school. Human mothers have taken out hits on their daughter's rivals in the real world. While 'Sali is self conscious about her looks, the fact is, she is stunningly beautiful, well liked and respected (partly for who she knows, but that's through no fault or design of her own) and is rising fast in supernatural circles. I can see a jealous mom trying to take her down a peg.

In fact, I'll go out on a limb and make a call. Jessie's mom is the complainer. It fits. From her perspective, Atsali's rise and associations knocked her daughter out of her Queen Bee slot. Something Jess was actually relieved by. But from previous conversations, Jessie's mom would be livid.

Because Jessie's mom, does not in fact, have it going on.
That's certainly another possibility. In those preppy/cool kid/popular circles the parents can oftentimes be more vicious than the kids. Speaking of vicious, it's a damned good thing that Atsali is such a nice girl by nature. Given the kind of power she has to throw around when she essentially hulks(birds) out, the fact that the girl can keep her cool is admirable. Though on the other hand, it's sad that the few times she has lost her cool has been with her own family.
I don't know about you folks, but in my experience, brothers/sisters know how to push our buttons better than just about anyone else...at least until we find a significant other.

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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Brasten » Sat May 30, 2015 8:29 am

scantrontb wrote: the only flaw i can see with that logic is that the "i'm telling Uncle" is ONLY effective if the yellee is aware that Devyn is the boss's boss's neice... if he thinks that she's "just another stupid kid that hangs out here a lot" then that portion of her rebuttal goes out the window. right NOW he's reacting to an angry girl getting up in his grill, that may not be how he actually ends up, since we have to wait until Monday to find out what happens after she stops raking him over the coals...
Most of her argument stands very well on its own, and even if he recovers enough to ask (especially snootily) who her uncle is, or "who she thinks she is." Well he just walks right into a double trap. Firstly her reminding him of her full name (including surname, and a great way for Atsali to learn it), and that he didn't recognize a frequent weekend VIP. (The owner's local niece who comes basically every weekend is kinda one of those things you learn if you're regular weekend staff.)

If he knows who she is (being a frequent VIP) he's toast now.
If he does not know who she is... he's even more toast come the Monday comic.

My guess is he knows who she is. And he goes running off and points out the complainer. It is the complainer who walks into the "and who do you think you are trap." Which of course is a great place for full lineage name dropping, plus going Para-form in a "teen hulk smash" kinda mood.

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Sgt. Howard
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Sgt. Howard » Sat May 30, 2015 12:17 pm

Dudes (and Dudettes)- Paul drew this fop with girly hand poses and eyeshadow- he also drew him with body language that insinuates he loves his authority in "excuse me". He IS part of the problem if not the problem itself! Boobs that big are offensive to him- this is your classic 'angry faggot' stereotype, who deeply resents anything female that might catch the wandering eye of a potentially bi-curious male. I realize that some might consider that offensive, but I assure you the creature DOES EXIST in real life, I have encountered them... I AM from the SF bay area after all... and no, I am not saying ALL gays are like this but there is what we 'breeders' refer to as the 'angry hairy-chested wangsucker' and THAT is about how they act given the authority to do so.
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illiad
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by illiad » Sat May 30, 2015 2:51 pm

"provocative manner" - hmmm, there is always one prude who will complain... turn back the clock to the early 1900's, even a 'bare ankle' was seemed shocking... :(
Just do an image search on 'award ceremony dresses' and most of those will be deemed 'provocative' by some old prude...

It seems almost anything is acceptable, as long a pantyline and a vague covering of the nipples is provided!!! LOL

America is an odd country... the largest producer of hardcor pron, and also some of the stupidest, prudish people...

So do not worry Paul.. your art is of high quality, up there with Vallejo... :)

http://vallejo.ural.net/

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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by sheik » Sat May 30, 2015 3:54 pm

Sgt. Howard wrote:Dudes (and Dudettes)- Paul drew this fop with girly hand poses and eyeshadow- he also drew him with body language that insinuates he loves his authority in "excuse me". He IS part of the problem if not the problem itself! Boobs that big are offensive to him- this is your classic 'angry faggot' stereotype, who deeply resents anything female that might catch the wandering eye of a potentially bi-curious male. I realize that some might consider that offensive, but I assure you the creature DOES EXIST in real life, I have encountered them... I AM from the SF bay area after all... and no, I am not saying ALL gays are like this but there is what we 'breeders' refer to as the 'angry hairy-chested wangsucker' and THAT is about how they act given the authority to do so.
Thank you for the heads up.
My own experience with the less-than-straight community is extremely limited (thanks mostly to my Avoidant Personality Disorder) and cost me a possible friendship with a certain writer I admire.
She is a lesbian, and thanks to my lack of understanding I frightened/offended her.
It was only long afterward and after long reflection that I realized that what she had experienced from me was what I had once experienced from a male homosexual.
Sexual Harassment
Things can be sooo complicated.

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illiad
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by illiad » Sat May 30, 2015 5:31 pm

sheik: unfortunately there are *straight* versions of this type... they seem to somehow still be living as if in the 1900's..

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Catawampus
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Catawampus » Sat May 30, 2015 7:14 pm

Bathorys Daughter wrote:But what IS "early?" I mean really. When people were lucky to make it to 30, marriage and breeding often started at 12 or 13. It had to. Those rites of passage, like bat mitzvah happen at 12 and 13 for a reason. The reason being that those were the ages of marriage eligibility way back when. The biology has not changed, it's only societies attitudes that have. Though in some places early teens is still the norm. Like it or not, girls are sexual creatures, and breedable even before teen years start. We simply allow them to be kids much longer nowadays. Anyway, my point is that these girls are only "kids" because we deem them to be so. Nature and biology say otherwise but we ignore it. Or we try to ignore it. It's a mistake to say these girls are too young to be "sexualized." They may act like giddy girls but, if they have menstruated, they are women. We just let them continue to be children. It's really just a game we play as a society. Unfortunately it messes with their minds quite a bit and makes them unsure of their place in the world. They have these very adult feelings and thoughts yet are treated as children. I know it messed with my mind. <steps off soapbox>
Sex and sexuality is a part of who we are and how we interact with other people. It's not going away any time soon. It has a biological instinctive basis with all of the associated hormones and everything, which influences us and that we can't really do a whole lot about. If a guy looks at a girl and thinks, “Whoa, she's hot!”, there's not much that he can do about that reaction short of drastic surgery. We can't really control who we are and are not attracted to. It doesn't matter what their age is, or what their 23rd chromosome pair consists of, or anything else. If you're attracted to somebody, then you're attracted to them. If people are attracted to you, then they're attracted to you. There's nothing “right” or “wrong” about it, and judging people simply based on thoughts and emotions that they have no conscious control over seems to me to be not only pointless but also unfair.

For humans (and many paranormals, apparently), of course, there's also an emotional side to sex that goes along with the biological. That's what makes it more than a simple biological matter of procreation. It's also what makes things so very much more tricky. Sure, at some point a person will start to physically mature sexually, and at that point you can say that they are biologically sexual individuals and adults. They will (with the exception of asexuals) probably be wanting to have sex, even if it is only a sort of vague confused desire without any particular person in mind. Trying to hide the matter and convince them that they don't have any sexuality yet will likely cause any number of problems.

But just because their bodies have matured doesn't mean that they've settled down on the emotional aspects of sex. They can't simply add a whole new facet to their personality overnight. It usually takes people decades—at least--to develop the social skills necessary to navigate the emotional aspects of everyday social interactions well enough that they don't regularly horribly embarrass or shock or hurt themselves or those around them. That's a big part of what going to school is supposed to be about: helping to make sure that the kids grow healthy social and emotional tendencies. Once the sexual aspect of their lives is physiologically unlocked, it's going to take them a good long while to learn about how to cope with the psychological hurdles. Simply saying, “Hey, you can reproduce now, thus you're an adult,” doesn't mean that much. They will be sexualised, but things can go horribly if they're sexualised in the wrong ways. Trying to rush things can be as emotionally traumatising to them as can trying to pretend that sex isn't really something that happens. Just like when they were kids and acquired their initial social skills, they again need proper schooling if they're going to learn how to be sexual without being hurt or hurting others.

Which is an unfortunate thing, because the emotional side to sex has gotten society so tied up and convoluted that it's hard for anybody to get any such thing. Instead they have people telling them to pretend that they don't have any sexuality, people telling them that sexuality in general is fine but that their particular sexuality is wrong, people telling them that they need to have sex because otherwise they are horrible people or losers, people telling them that they need to shape their sexuality exclusively to that one other person's particular views or else they're abominations. . .all that mess. They end up feeling pressured to do things that they don't want to do, or to repress what they feel. They learn that they are “bad” or “ugly” for not living up to some other person's fantasies. And so on. That's where society needs to get its act together and be sure that we're working on not oversexualising these kids, or sexualising them in harmful ways.

I think that that may be of one of the general directions where Mr. Taylor is going with this comic. Not that sex is bad, or that looking at somebody and finding them attractive is wrong, or that we should try to hide the very notion of sex from children until they finally reach some socially-mandated age. Rather, it's that we should be sure that children grow into their sexuality in as comfortable and safe and healthy a way as possible, in a way that lets them keep their self-respect and in which we in turn respect them as individuals rather than as objects to be guarded or coveted. And that when they do hit the age where their sexuality becomes part of their lives, that we don't treat it as the defining trait that they should shape their whole self around. Atsali may be a character who is exaggeratedly built in a way that we are conditioned to think of as sexy, but if we see her wearing a particular outfit or sitting in a particular manner then we ought to primarily be viewing her as just what she is: a kid of a very wide range of physical and mental attributes who happens to be wearing that outfit or sitting in that manner. The dissonance between how we know we ought to respond and how so much of media and social pressure tells us that we're supposed to respond is the whole point. It is unfair to everybody involved to let the latter viewpoints dominate and dictate what Atsali wears or what she does.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with any guy (or girl or critter) noticing Atsali standing around in her bikini and thinking about her in a sexual way.

To me, where the problems start is two-fold. First, it's when the guy seeing her only thinks of her in a sexual way. He sees her mainly as a physical object to satisfy his urges on, and not really as a person with her own ideas and choices. Even worse is when the guy decides that for whatever reason (because of how she's shaped, because he's such a “nice guy”, whatever) he's owed the gratification of his fantasies by her. That's when things can get really ugly.

The other part where things can go bad is when thoughts turn into actions. As far as I'm concerned, for a person to see Atsali at the pool and think, “I'd really like to grab what's under that bikini!” is perfectly fine. Even if the person knows that she's underaged, I see nothing wrong with simply thinking that that would be a fun thing to do (I expect that most people have had at least passing thoughts of that nature about somebody legally under-aged more than once). If some guy suddenly walks up to her and tries actually doing it without even asking, or asks and is told no and still decides that he can do it, then things turn to the exact opposite of fine. Even if there is no physical contact involved, how a guy acts around her can be a problem. Harassment doesn't have to be a contact event, and words can hurt quite badly. At that point, I have no problem whatsoever with casting judgments on that person and suitably punishing them. There are plenty of ways to try to turn desires into reality that are perfectly acceptable, such as politely going up to Atsali and asking her out, and then respecting that whether or not she has any sort of relationship of any type with you is partly her own choice. Assuming that somebody is obligated to fulfill your desires simply because you think that they are the sort of person who ought to is far from acceptable, as is teaching “that sort” or person that that is what they're supposed to be doing.

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Catawampus
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Catawampus » Sat May 30, 2015 7:17 pm

Akeche wrote:Well I never said the design wasn't for the story, but there can be secondary reasons. And... Goes out of his way to do what? Simple fact of the matter is, they're pin-ups and plenty of them have been drawn in a provocative manner. He can argue that they aren't all he wishes to, but if they weren't drawn to the point of being titillating you wouldn't have people on tumblr claiming that he's hypocritical. Now I personally don't find him to be a hypocrite, but I'm also a rather relaxed individual and try to look at things under a well reasoned lens.
First off, a personal disclaimer: there may likely be major aspects of sexuality and of views on sexuality that I am totally missing out on due to the limitations of my own sexuality. I'm a male and heterosexual (or if I'm bisexual then I must have only associated with very unattractive men and thus never realised it), but with the added limitation that I'm only turned on by girls who I already have a close personal association with and who I like and trust. Sure, I can see a woman walking by and realise the fact that she's a person who is considered hot and sexy by mainstream standards, but I have yet to feel an attraction to some stranger who I just happened to see or have only just met. There may be some fancy term pscyhologists have for that, but I have no idea what.

Because of all of that, though, I have a somewhat removed point of view when it comes to the situation of random people looking at Atsali and being turned on by her. All that I can go on is what I've seen second-hand of that sort of thing, not base things on personal experience. So I may easily be overlooking a lot from the turned-on individual's point of view.

That being said, I haven't seen any pictures of Atsali that really look to be "sexed up". Sure, she has a general body-shape that is intentionally meant to be an exaggeration of media's version of what is sexy, so that sort of sexiness will be there in any image of her. That's a basic part of her character since she hit puberty, she can't really be drawn without that figure now without not being a picture of her. Beyond that, though. . .I haven't seen a picture of her where she looks as though she's trying to be seductive, or anything like that. The one exception could be the Catwoman Halloween one before she had her whole shape change, but in that one the inappropriateness of the outfit and Katherine's reaction to it was the joke. In all of the pictures, she just looks like a girl who's being a kid and having fun. If it wasn't for her chest measurements, would any of the pictures really be objectionable?

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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by jwhouk » Sat May 30, 2015 8:54 pm

Of course, we could go back say seven years ago and replace the word "Atsali" with "Monica" and the discussion wouldn't change much.

(The main difference would be that M was a twenty-something at the time, but that's neither here nor there.)
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by shadowinthelight » Sat May 30, 2015 9:18 pm

Sgt. Howard wrote:'angry faggot'
'angry hairy-chested wangsucker'
Nice to know your manner of dealing with offensive behavior is to be offensive in return.
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Sgt. Howard » Sat May 30, 2015 11:25 pm

shadowinthelight wrote:
Sgt. Howard wrote:'angry faggot'
'angry hairy-chested wangsucker'
Nice to know your manner of dealing with offensive behavior is to be offensive in return.
I honestly don't know polite terms for such people as I have described. I am not good at 'politically correct' and am not interested in learning. PC holds the absurd notion that one can pick up a turd from the clean end... I don't buy that. "Angry Faggot" is a term that I learned from a gay man who explained the concept to me- the gay community is as much embarrassed by such people as anyone else. "Angry hairy chested wangsucker"... I am trying to remember where and when I first heard it, but this is the first time somebody called me on it.

If somebody is displeased by a profile they have been tagged with, they might want to do a self-check to see if it's a fair cop. If it is, then they MIGHT consider a re-evaluation of their own being... if not, then they ought either consider if the source is worth their concern. If one acts in an offensive manner, one ought not be surprised by offensive response... and yet, I have always been astounded at the number of people who go looking for trouble and are shocked when they find it.

Here we have, by all appearances, an individual that gets a thrill, a power surge, from belittling underage girls at their vanity, 'body shaming' I believe is the term used.

By comparison- are my words NEARLY as offensive as this nimrod's action's?
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Re: Imagine That 2015-05-29

Post by Sgt. Howard » Sat May 30, 2015 11:31 pm

sheik wrote: Things can be sooo complicated.

... you've no idea... there have been altogether too many of what I call "Klaxon moments" where I had been hitting on what I was absolutely CERTAIN to be a female of the species only to find ... otherwise... I call them 'Klaxon moments' because that's when the eyes get huge and the brain goes ahOOOOOga!!!

... typically with me totally embarrassed, telling this person "uh... sorry... I'm not hinged on that side... y'know, you're too convincing for your own good..." :oops:
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