Just A Kid 20115-04-06

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lake_wrangler
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Re: Just A Kid 20115-04-06

Post by lake_wrangler »

Nimrod wrote:I feel sad for the Atsali character as Paul has deliberately made her this way and yet purposefully stripped her ability to shape shift her boobs to a more manageable size - on purpose and in an after-the-fact manner. Oh yeah, my shape shifter can change everything except the one physical attribute that will cause her perpetual conflict with her peers, social stigmatization, and plot points for the next year or so...
Actually, this is not really as contrived a plot device at it may seem: the only thing that has changed, is her base form. From the first time we saw her, when she was in siren form, her chest was relatively small, but proportional to her taller-than-Katherine body. When she reverted to normal human size/form, the proportions were kept, in her now-shorter-than-Katherine size/form. So while there was an increase in absolute size, there was none to speak of, in relative size.

In the same manner, when she was at the island with everyone else, her proportions were the same in her taller form, as they are in her normal human size/form, now that she has been hit by puberty (yes, the word order is deliberate). You'll notice that, while she stated earlier (see previous link) that she was seven feet tall in her siren-sized human form, she is now slightly shorter than Katherine, but sports the same proportions. This is simply the new base form/shape. She cannot change that. Absolute size will increase when she grows to siren form, but will only decrease to her new standard busty persona, when she returns to human form. Nothing unusual about that, however embarrassing she may find the situation to be.

And this is not unheard of, either. Take a look at Shelly: she of the demi-bras, she of the bandanna top (which, if I'm not mistaken, precludes the wearing of a bra altogether), who is, I would guess, an A size in her human form (or perhaps a B size, at the most...) In her sphinx form, her proportions are just about the same.

Read the arc where Shelly 1 is in the time forest with Shelly 57, and you can see what I mean. In fact, that is the best comparison possible, as you can see both the human form and the sphinx form at the same time. Again, we see an increase in absolute size, but the proportions hardly change at all.

All this to say that we should not be surprised to see that Atsali can't shrink her chest when in human form. That's just not how it works with shapeshifters who maintain a similar form throughout (albeit with extra appendages and so on, like Atsali's wings, talons, face markings and at times bird legs), with size increase/decrease between form. The exception to the rule being, of course, the ursamorphs, since they are not limited to shifting between similar shapes. They can do whatever form shifting they want. Again, given the parameters, that would be par for the course.
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Thor
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Re: Just A Kid 20115-04-06

Post by Thor »

lake_wrangler wrote:Actually, this is not really as contrived a plot device at it may seem: the only thing that has changed, is her base form. From the first time we saw her, when she was in siren form, her chest was relatively small, but proportional to her taller-than-Katherine body. When she reverted to normal human size/form, the proportions were kept, in her now-shorter-than-Katherine size/form. So while there was an increase in absolute size, there was none to speak of, in relative size.

In the same manner, when she was at the island with everyone else, her proportions were the same in her taller form, as they are in her normal human size/form, now that she has been hit by puberty (yes, the word order is deliberate). You'll notice that, while she stated earlier (see previous link) that she was seven feet tall in her siren-sized human form, she is now slightly shorter than Katherine, but sports the same proportions. This is simply the new base form/shape. She cannot change that. Absolute size will increase when she grows to siren form, but will only decrease to her new standard busty persona, when she returns to human form. Nothing unusual about that, however embarrassing she may find the situation to be.

And this is not unheard of, either. Take a look at Shelly: she of the demi-bras, she of the bandanna top (which, if I'm not mistaken, precludes the wearing of a bra altogether), who is, I would guess, an A size in her human form (or perhaps a B size, at the most...) In her sphinx form, her proportions are just about the same.

Read the arc where Shelly 1 is in the time forest with Shelly 57, and you can see what I mean. In fact, that is the best comparison possible, as you can see both the human form and the sphinx form at the same time. Again, we see an increase in absolute size, but the proportions hardly change at all.

All this to say that we should not be surprised to see that Atsali can't shrink her chest when in human form. That's just not how it works with shapeshifters who maintain a similar form throughout (albeit with extra appendages and so on, like Atsali's wings, talons, face markings and at times bird legs), with size increase/decrease between form. The exception to the rule being, of course, the ursamorphs, since they are not limited to shifting between similar shapes. They can do whatever form shifting they want. Again, given the parameters, that would be par for the course.
There's a certain satisfaction with backing up your assertions with a horde of facts and links, isn't there? :ugeek:
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lake_wrangler
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Re: Just A Kid 20115-04-06

Post by lake_wrangler »

Thor wrote:There's a certain satisfaction with backing up your assertions with a horde of facts and links, isn't there? :ugeek:
I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about... :roll:


:ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Opus the Poet
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Re: Just A Kid 20115-04-06

Post by Opus the Poet »

lake_wrangler wrote:
Thor wrote:There's a certain satisfaction with backing up your assertions with a horde of facts and links, isn't there? :ugeek:
I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about... :roll:


:ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Where's that "Like" button? :ugeek:
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Re: Just A Kid 20115-04-06

Post by AmriloJim »

Opus the Poet wrote:Where's that "Like" button? :ugeek:
My phpBB3 users asked me the same thing... I gave 'em a :like: smilie: Image
... and :nuke: for the thumbs-down crowd: Image
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Catawampus
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Re: Just A Kid 20115-04-06

Post by Catawampus »

Dave wrote:
eee wrote:
Bathorys Daughter wrote:The adults seem to be long on how things should be but short on advice for how things are. Atsali has to live in the real world of imperfect people/beings. Telling someone how the world and it's inhabitants should conduct themselves is pretty much meaningless.

<snip>

:D
Yes, this is the problem. Jin, Kath, they're telling Atsali how the world SHOULD be. Atsali KNOWS how the world should be, she's trying to deal with the world as it is. A world where people look at her figure and conclude she's a porn star, and say so to her face. Maybe she should be talking to G'ma Lily. I'm sure Lily can suggest some responses that would curl the hair... and perhaps then set it on fire... of anyone running their mouth at Atsali.
Well... they are affirming something important to Atsali. "You're right, kid. What they're doing sucks. It's not right, you aren't imagining it, and you aren't out of line for being upset about it."

Ultimately, although Atsali can get suggestions about how to deal with it, and may get some "backing" from Aunt Jin and others in confronting some of the adults in question... in the end, she's going to have to deal with it herself. She'll have to develop her own set and collection of techniques which work for her, based on what she's facing. Some of that may be snarky responses... or straightforward, polite, but assertive responses to those who prejudge her. Some of it will be her own internal attitude... simply learning not to care about the opinions of the ignorant and ill-informed and prejudiced. Some of it will be by having a good circle of friends who know her for who she truly is.

In the end, nobody else can do these things for her... friends and relatives can maybe point the way, but she has to live these things as part of her own life in order for them to really affect how she feels.

(One of my favorite books which touches on this theme is Siddhartha, by Hermann Hesse. No one can live another's life for him, or her... each must find their own path.)
She has received some good advice. . .the problem is that the advice is too incomplete. Her problem is one that is so involved in scope that no simple conversation can give enough advice to cover all contingencies.

"Just ignore it" is a valid plan for some situations. But it wouldn't work for situations such as at the pool. Ignoring the woman who complained still leaves her with the pool management throwing her out.

What she needs is some thought and some experience. Her own experience, though borrowing from that of her family and friends can certainly help. Somebody said something along the lines of how she can't change the world to suit her better, but to some degree she actually can. It's just that at the same time everybody else on the planet is also trying to change it to their own preferences at the same time. She needs to learn to distinguish when a situation is something that she can actively work to change, and when a situation is too much for her to do anything about right then and there. She can work on learning what sort of immediate actions she can take to overpower or defuse an attacker, and learn some long-term strategies to make people less likely to attack her in the first place.

While all of the people she's talked to basically just telling her that things shouldn't be the way that they are isn't exactly helping to change the situation, at least they are helping to confirm for her that there is a baseline of how things ought to be, so that she can try to change her situation closer to that. Otherwise, she might just decide that the people making fun of her and gossiping about her are right.
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Re: Just A Kid 20115-04-06

Post by jwhouk »

Catawampus wrote: <snip>
While all of the people she's talked to basically just telling her that things shouldn't be the way that they are isn't exactly helping to change the situation, at least they are helping to confirm for her that there is a baseline of how things ought to be, so that she can try to change her situation closer to that. Otherwise, she might just decide that the people making fun of her and gossiping about her are right.
That might be what happened to Demon Girl. Might be that Pablo didn't throw her in as a red herring.
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