From Her Past 2015-03-20

[kingklash]

Anyway, I just find it odd that Nadette is trying to use her Seer-ing forecasting power for her own ends. Fortune-telling, scrying, and other means for mere mortals to peek at the future is fraught with Heisenburgian uncertainty and the rule of "Cheaters Never Prosper." You have to learn the Why if you want to be able to know When to do the What to get This or That. Otherwise you end up with more Huh? than you can handle.

That's one of the recurring themes in Donaldson's "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" novels: un-earned knowledge and lore are dangerous. Giving people power (and knowledge is power) when they haven't ""worked their way up to it" does them no favors. You have to do the work "up front" and develop your own "feel" for the character and limits of the lore you are seeking, or you risk abusing the power (often out of ignorance) and bringing down disaster upon yourself and others.

I own the First and Second Chronicles, and have freaked posters out on Fark for saying that I have enjoyed them.

[jeffepp]

So, I broke my foot in basic training. That got me sent to a hold squadron, while I healed up. Wash-outs from the Combat Control/Pararescue school were also sent to this unit, as they could not remain with them until re-assignment. One of the most common ways to wash out was injury. Most of those that went to PJ school first heard about it after starting basic, but a few joined with that in mind. One guy like that had just come in, due to a broken bone.

As it happened, a few of us that had been there a while (I had my cast off, and was in physical therapy at that point) were standing around talking. It came up that this individual might be sick, as he had been in a stall in the latrine for some time, although he insisted that he was fine. Someone then mentioned that he seemed rather up beat, after getting washed out. Then someone recalled that they thought he had been trying to give himself a tattoo, using the blades pulled out of a disposable razor.

At that point, we all kind of looked at each other a moment, and all headed to the latrine.

As it happened, we were all big guys. I was the smallest of the group, and I'm over 6'1". So, I was the one to slide under the stall door. He had cut up his wrist, not really deep. Maybe he hadn't worked himself up to that, yet. Maybe he just needed help, and this was a cry for it.

I called for the guard on duty to call down for help on the intercom. The MTM on duty had to have broken a speed record to get around the building, and up the stairs, in that short of time. He talked the guy out of the stall, who steadfastly refused to admit there was anything wrong, and covered his arm up as he was lead away. We were told later, that he was getting the help he needed. What that was, and if he really got it, I don't know. But, to this day, I believe that, if we had not come to a group decision to check on him when we did, someone would have found him dead or dying later.

_______________________________


On the subject of PTSD, while you can get it from one indecent, most people get it over time. And certain things can set it off, that don't bother others. A while back, on another forum, someone posted a gif of a jetliner doing a barrel roll (clearly fake). But, several of us were reminded of the Fairchild crash, and talked about that. That upset the poster, who seemed to think we were complaining about them posting what they thought was a funny gag gif. I had to explain that it wasn't criticism, just a PTSD triggered response. Very few of us got out of the military without some twitches. While you cannot blame it for everything, don't dismiss it as a factor, either.

[TazManiac]

JW,

I understand the feeling and I agree to a certain extent.

I was thinking though that if these events (loss of a friend, and in such a way) had happened prior to Atsali meeting Kath in the Library (Atsali's Introduction....*) then it makes some sense as to why 'Bird-Brain' was indeed being a dodo-head, loosing herself perhaps in Fantasy and Adventure (Capital F & A).

Lost in stories as a distraction might have primmed her for the quick decision she made to scoop-and-run off w/ her Adventure Buddy in tow, and Damn the Torpedoes!

Just say'n and in a retcon sort of way, but it fits. a little bit.

(I need to find that first shot of 'Sali w/ the chicken legs...)

PS- I see Yamara also touched on this on the second page...

[displaced]

I'm sorry, I didn't see this coming at all. I was seriously surprised by it and I should not have been. Paul handles these kind of things straight on. He doesn't dodge them at all. This is a significant event in Atsali's past and would effect the way she views others.

[meisdadoo]

//WINCE//
Oww. Poor Atsali.
Yeah, that'd be one heck of an emotional scar/burden to carry along through the rest of your life.
This new info does seem to raise the odds that we'll see Atsali arrive at Nadette's place, adrenalin flying, saying "Are you OK???". I think she's going to be taking Pickle's worried statements about the happy-but-sad scent very seriously.

And now we know it was suicide. I doubt she would go over though. She can simply call Berdine and find out if Nadette is ok. Maybe talk to her over the phone as well. As we know, Berdine has already talked it out with Nadette so she is up to speed on the matter.

Wonder if Atsali was close to the gone girl? Really close, that is.

" I doubt she would go over though" Not even close. Once you experience the suicide of a friend or loved one; You will do all that you can to prevent another one.. Atsalli is going to be all "When my friend is trouble I am not slow, it is hip hip hip and away I go! (Que the Underdog theme song. . . *and toss a Milkbone in the pun jar* Speed of lightning; Roar of thunder. . . .)

[Sgt. Howard]

PTSD is wierd stuff- I have seen grown men who never accepted watching their dog get run over when they were 5 years old... and I have seen those who got through the bad part of hell without a twitch... no way to figure it out, from a rational standpoint. But we all have our weaknesses- I have spent hours dealing with a gangrenouse bowel (I do not have a description of the smell that is adequate) and then chowed down on a subway sandwich, no problem... get me near an over-ripe banana and I puke. Every time. I have helped sort out human remains. I have helped harvest organs from a doner on more than one occasion. Skin grafting is one of the more barbaric things done in surgery. None of that bothers me.

Ther was a 21 y/o female, broadsided in her VW by a drunk in a truck. She came in without warning. As she came in the door, she grabbed my arm and begged, "Please don't let me die,"- THAT one I nightmare about. That was 1986. We fought for three hours before anesthisia said 'no more'.

[Opus the Poet]

I have shared this before but I don't remember if I shared it with you guys.

<deep breath>

In 2001 I was riding my bicycle home from work on a night that had spotty T-storms pop up on the way home and my normal one hour ride was stretched out to 2 1/2 trying to keep dry. As I was about 2/3 of the way home riding down a street that was 3 lanes in each direction and a curbed and grassy median between the lanes about quarter after 1 in the morning a guy that was probably drunk driving a white pickup truck going the other direction screamed out the window to "Get off the Fucking road!" Since there were no sidewalks or bike lanes and this was the only way home I ignored him and kept riding. For some reason he drove down to the next cut-through in the median and made a U-turn to get on my side of the road, floored it and hit me from behind at what the accident reconstructionist said was a speed "no lower than 45 MPH or higher than 65 MPH with greatest confidence at 60 MPH."

The bumper got me in the left calf, and I bounced off the hood on my left hip. I crushed a windshield post with the back of my head and flew off the roof to between 12 and 16 feet in the air, tumbling on all 3 axis several times and landing face-first into the concrete street 50 feet from the point of impact. My bike came to rest against a street sign a quarter of a mile away, completely crushed from the seat post back. My lower leg had virtually exploded from the initial impact and I had a tib-fib fracture that the tib had set itself while I was flying through the air. I tore both cruciate ligaments and the meniscus in my knee, and broke my femur and my hip, all in my left leg. I had a partial face detachment from landing on my face and diffuse axonal injury to my brain. I had two seizures, one in the ambulance, and one in the ER. What saved my life was I died for about 2 minutes before the EMT could make it around the corner to control my bleeding, If I had not been dead I would have bled out before help could get there.

Also being dead was boring, there was a guy there who told me my "job" as a dead person was to become one with the universe. I followed instructions as to how to do that and all I saw was little dots that were galaxies. Hard to observe what people are doing and become one with that when galaxies look like little dots. I said something on the lines that this was boring and I was going back. And that was when I restarted my heart and said something like "ouch" to the people standing over me. I was transported to the hospital where I spent 13 days and got to watch 9-11 unfold from a hospital bed, until I could walk with a walker to use the toilet and climb one step with assistance so I could get in and out of my house.

This did not give me PTSD immediately, that did not set in until the "detective" assigned to my case tried to tell me here was no proof that I did any damage to the truck that they could use to search for it, in spite of having windshield glass removed from my back and paint transfer from the truck on my helmet, and I know the hood was bent from breaking my hip. Knowing that some guy had tried to kill me and that LEO were going to do nothing about that, is what tipped me over into PTSD.

[JSStryker]

Gahh such a situation to have to go through as a young person.

[TazManiac]

I for one am glad Opus is still on the Planet...

[AmriloJim]

I for one am glad Opus is still on the Planet...

Amen.

[Warrl]

the "detective" assigned to my case tried to tell me here was no proof that I did any damage to the truck that they could use to search for it, in spite of having windshield glass removed from my back and paint transfer from the truck on my helmet, and I know the hood was bent from breaking my hip. Knowing that some guy had tried to kill me and that LEO were going to do nothing about that, is what tipped me over into PTSD.

Yeah, that says to me "we're pretty sure we know who did it and we certainly won't do anything that might lead to proof that we're right."

[AnotherFairportfan]

A while back, on another forum, someone posted a gif of a jetliner doing a barrel roll (clearly fake). But, several of us were reminded of the Fairchild crash, and talked about that. That upset the poster, who seemed to think we were complaining about them posting what they thought was a funny gag gif. I had to explain that it wasn't criticism, just a PTSD triggered response. Very few of us got out of the military without some twitches. While you cannot blame it for everything, don't dismiss it as a factor, either.

Actually, if the jetliner in question was a 707, it probably WASN'T faked. In 1955, a Boeing test pilot at a demonstration of the then-new 707, was supposed to do a simple flyover, but instead put the big bird through a slow roll - two, i think. You can find the video on YouTube. When i get back to the computer, i'll link to it.

Almost any modern jetliner ought be able to do that, in an "aileron roll", in which the forces never exceed one g.

(A DC-6 (i think) survived a much more stressful snap roll when it was hit by a waterspout over the Caribbean, according to Ernest K Gann.

Of course, the air frame was twisted something like a foot out of line, and it never flew again ... but it got irs crew and pax home alive, if considerably shaken and stirred.

================

My own twitch from the military is/was (forty years on it's worn off some) a touch of survivor guilt - i did my time in Viet Nam in a "safe" rear area (NAVCOMMSTA Cam Ranh Bay), while guys i did boot camp with are on the Black Wall.

I've been in DC several times (though not in the last twenty years) and i've never been able to drag myself to the Wall.

I accidentally encountered the Moving Wall at Lenox Square once, and the first name i saw when i glanced at it was a guy from my boot company - i couldn't tell you the name, not after all these years, and i couldn't find it again if i trird - but right then i knew it and i remembered.

So i turned away and found myself facing one of the four women's names.

One of the guides who travel with the Moving Wall - all VN vets themselves - took a look at my face and came over to see if i needed help. I said,no, but i needed to get away from there, and he shook my hand and said "I gotcha, brother" and walked beside me the first few feet.

God DAMN Macnamara, god DAMN Kissinger and Nixon ... and god DAMN Bush Minor and Cheney.

My son-in-law spent his year in Iraq as a Bradley driver, and got blown up three times,

I hope my granddaughters (and my nieces and nephew) are all smart enough to stay far, far away from a military career.

[Sgt. Howard]

Biscuits & gravy, hog jowl, grits, coffee sweetened with molasses, flapjacks & fresh persimmons on the table to start the "Councillors' corner"- comfort foods of Appalachia... healing starts with good food.

"Gourmet Comfort Food" may be an oxymoron, but that menu shows you are a connoisseur.

I merely consider myself fortunate that my Mother's family were hillbillies

[Sgt. Howard]

I for one am glad Opus is still on the Planet...

Amen.

May I join the chorus?

[Sgt. Howard]

My own twitch from the military is/was (forty years on it's worn off some) a touch of survivor guilt - i did my time in Viet Nam in a "safe" rear area (NAVCOMMSTA Cam Ranh Bay), while guys i did boot camp with are on the Black Wall.

I've been in DC several times (though not in the last twenty years) and i've never been able to drag myself to the Wall.

I accidentally encountered the Moving Wall at Lenox Square once, and the first name i saw when i glanced at it was a guy from my boot company - i couldn't tell you the name, not after all these years, and i couldn't find it again if i trird - but right then i knew it and i remembered.

So i turned away and found myself facing one of the four women's names.

One of the guides who travel with the Moving Wall - all VN vets themselves - took a look at my face and came over to see if i needed help. I said,no, but i needed to get away from there, and he shook my hand and said "I gotcha, brother" and walked beside me the first few feet.

God DAMN Macnamara, god DAMN Kissinger and Nixon ... and god DAMN Bush Minor and Cheney.

My son-in-law spent his year in Iraq as a Bradley driver, and got blown up three times,

I hope my granddaughters (and my nieces and nephew) are all smart enough to stay far, far away from a military career.

I was also a REMF- missed 'Nam by months, I joined voluntarily in '77 at age 23. Never left CONUS. Plenty of classmates on that wall...

[zachariah]

having a twitch does not mean PTSD. It is called a disorder because the person cannot cope with the stressful event and it overwhelms them. With care the person can be led to recognize, accept the event, and get past it so they are not overwhelmed. The sad ones are those who never manage that feat. Just being reminded of an event and letting it surge forward is not PTSD, it is strong memories of the past. But you copes back then, you coped now, it did not overwhelm you. So where have we seen anything that shows Sali has not coped and moved on? I have yet to see her freeze, collapse, or break down when a possible trigger event occurs.

I too was in VN and saw my share. I've had memories surprise me as well. But even then I can still put them in perspective and move forward. So do I have PTSD, Not a chance.To everyone who has moved forward, welcome to the club.

[TazManiac]

Well, in the character's experience there was the time when she wanted to peel her skin off 'to make it stop', (foreshadowed by the chess-master if I recall correctly...).

On a related topic, but in a converse sort of way, keep in mind there is also long-term but perhaps low (relatively speaking) levels of exposure to stress, esp if it is unrelenting, that can contribute to many of these same or similar complications.

I mean that sometimes it isn't one big shock but rather like too many cumulative rems of radiation, over time, it overwhelms.

[TazManiac]

Hey, this thread has gotten awful heavy, here is something prescribed to combat the swing of the Pendulum- near random Wapsi Comic from the past:

July 09, 2004



dere' hows dat?

[jwhouk]

...What is this "weekend" thing of which you speak?

[Hansontoons]

...What is this "weekend" thing of which you speak?

Hmm... An unsatisfying finish to a story? Something some individuals of advanced age experience? A couple of days hard-working folks use to recover from work? Or a couple of days from which some people use the week to recover?