Have Known 2015-03-11

[Grantwhy]

3) Seer does not equal perfect future sight.

I Nade has the ability to figure out how to get herself around Atsali's naked body THAT well, then she also can't be tested in school, simply because she could read every test before it happens. So she can see into the future, she can't see the consequences of the future choices past certain points.

I'd also suggest that Nadette can't see *everything* that happens.

Maybe Atsali has a better understanding of Nadette's seer abilities and when they were *NOT* used?

Atsali:"she knew that this talisman would help me not morp in public" > and Nadette knew Atsali wanted/needed something like that because she was talking to Atsali about Jacob, Atsali mentioned her fear of losing control of her shape and Nadette had prior knowledge about the talismans

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/hold-your-form/

"I know werewolves that use them"

So, to the best of my logic, no use of Nadette's seer ability there.


As for the rocket and subsequent wardrobe malfunction ... even if Nadette knew she'd be Atsali's catsuit, she knew nothing about the facility until they got there and she starting 'seering things'^ and I believe her when she said the rocket was the only way to get out in time, plus my theory is that Atsali was the one of the two guaranteed to get both of them to safety.

To my mind, the only black mark against Nadette is if she knew (through her seer abilities) that Atsali would need to take off the talisman and chose to not tell her.


^ deposits a non-functional pair of x-ray goggles in the pun jar
.

[DilyV]

Lots of theories here but there are a some facts that we may be overlooking.

1. Atsali is a siren... millions of years of evolution and instinct locked up in a barely pubescent teenage body. All the knowledge and instinct, absolutely no experience.

2. We keep seeing Wapsi as an entirely different place... Wapsi square is on this planet so it is subjected to this planet's struggles. It would be hard for her to miss the uproar over same sex relationships... especially in today's climate. (not trying to inject politics, just making an observation)

3. My first post in this thread was late late last night. I took what I saw on the surface as gospel but looking at the strip with fresh eyes and a clearer mind this morning I noticed something. Kath says "no bullshit", putting Atsali on notice that her bullshit detector is up and running at 110% efficiency. I spent my military time as Military Police and have some investigative experience. I was carefully trained to spot facial and body language. I'm not so sure that Atsali is as clueless as she seems to be. Note when she begins to answer Kath about what happened and she's talking about the site and the Ethetians, she is looking straight at Kath. Kath tells her to "never mind about that we'll get to it, tell me about you and Nadette." Now comes the change. Atsali loses her ability to look Kath straight in the eye and her eyes wander up and left... clear indications that she's lying, or at the very least what she's saying isn't entirely the truth. (I worked doing drug investigations for three years and saw this body language over and over and over. I had a 100% case solve and conviction ratio). I likened this up and left eye movement to "searching for believable answers". Atsali isn't coming clean here and mama Kath knows it, hence "the look".

4. It could very well be that Atsali is in overload mode and has been for awhile. It began when she hit puberty and began having wing poofs at the most inopportune times... or fearing it would happen. She's trying to deal with becoming an adult siren and trying to head off the siren tendencies with little or no training. The talisman is a "mechanical", not instinctual way of short stopping her body's reaction to certain stimuli. She doesn't even understand the changes her body is going through, so she's a bit short on answers on how to deal with it.

5. Nadette made it perfectly clear how she felt about Atsali... she came right out and told her with words and body language. Kissing, tongue in ear, hands all over... Hard to be clueless when things like that happen... and when Nadette kissed her, Atsali didn't seem to be too much of a cold fish about it...

You're a teenager... you find yourself attracted to someone of the same sex... something that society isn't too comfy with... Hell, she's not to comfy with that herself. Do you really believe Atsali would be honest about that with Kath? She certainly seems to be somewhat in denial when her own feelings are concerned. I imagine right about now she's all confused... hot for a boy... and having a girl hot for her. I'm pretty sure her hard wired Siren instincts aren't gender specific... not homophobic that is. Her confusion comes from what she's learned from society and it is conflicting with her species' instinctual reactions. (Atsali kissing Berdine and turning Berdine upside down over it is a prime example. She knew instinctually that she was capable of forcing people to like her through her abilities as a siren... and had no problem doing it to make the point to Berdine to get her to see why she didn't want to talk about it) Add on to that that Atsali is trying to be as non-siren as she can be... comedy ensues when she's faced with those hard knock life choices.

I'd imagine that Atsali is in denial over Nadette's feelings towards her. Sure, she knows she's capable of enticing both genders, but I think Atsali is realizing that Nadette's feelings are real and not forced by her inner Siren's abilities. Atsali is a typical teenager who happens to be a paranormal... She's coming into her own and having the same problems every other normal teenager does. Her reaction and body/facial language tells me that she feels the need to hade the truth... whatever that truth is.

[Dave]

I'd imagine that Atsali is in denial over Nadette's feelings towards her. Sure, she knows she's capable of enticing both genders, but I think Atsali is realizing that Nadette's feelings are real and not forced by her inner Siren's abilities. Atsali is a typical teenager who happens to be a paranormal... She's coming into her own and having the same problems every other normal teenager does. Her reaction and body/facial language tells me that she feels the need to hide the truth... whatever that truth is.

Very nice analysis - thank you!

Although Atsali has a bunch of built-in "sexuality power" (her Siren heritage) she doesn't seem to be ahead of others of her age in really understanding the emotional implications of it all... how lust, limerence ("being in romantic love"), friendship, caring, and compassionate/dispassionate love all interact. She has the power to make almost anyone "fall in love" (and lust) with her... but I don't think she yet appreciates how "being in love" feels when it's happening, or when it's unrequited. She hasn't been there yet... she hasn't been through those stages of a relationship herself... and so she can't entirely empathize with Nadette.

She's really in "unexplored territory" in her life, in a bunch of ways at once... like other teens. Her Siren nature and powers up the ante... but what she's going through may not be all that different in kind to what's experienced by those teens who are born with great physical beauty and sex-appeal.

The fact that this is all happening with Nadette, in a same-sex attraction, does complicate things for everybody concerned... but a lot of the issues would apply to boys who Atsali wanted to have as friends rather than lovers.

[illiad]

2. We keep seeing Wapsi as an entirely different place... Wapsi square is on this planet so it is subjected to this planet's struggles. It would be hard for her to miss the uproar over same sex relationships... especially in today's climate. (not trying to inject politics, just making an observation)

Unless you have grown up in an orphanage, away from the human world... even humans that young are quite overprotected by naive parents... I saw an American show about relationships.. one male + female 'couple' had been going out for 6 months.. and one had to confess 'she' was actually a man!! :O

3. My first post in this thread was late late last night. I took what I saw on the surface as gospel but looking at the strip with fresh eyes and a clearer mind this morning I noticed something. Kath says "no bullshit", putting Atsali on notice that her bullshit detector is up and running at 110% efficiency. I spent my military time as Military Police and have some investigative experience. I was carefully trained to spot facial and body language. I'm not so sure that Atsali is as clueless as she seems to be. Note when she begins to answer Kath about what happened and she's talking about the site and the Ethetians, she is looking straight at Kath. Kath tells her to "never mind about that we'll get to it, tell me about you and Nadette." Now comes the change. Atsali loses her ability to look Kath straight in the eye and her eyes wander up and left... clear indications that she's lying, or at the very least what she's saying isn't entirely the truth. (I worked doing drug investigations for three years and saw this body language over and over and over. I had a 100% case solve and conviction ratio). I likened this up and left eye movement to "searching for believable answers". Atsali isn't coming clean here and mama Kath knows it, hence "the look".

or she was thinking ' hmm she did all these 'strange' things, I did not really understand what it meant??? It felt good, but she is a nice friend???' ..

[KnightDelight]

For my two cents, I see Kath's look as meaning what part of seer do you not understand?. Nadette may have only known about the rocket via the stone recordings (Stocordings? Rocordings?) but she could have foreseen the cat-suit incident long before that. She just may not have fully understood it at the time she foresaw it. That would mean she should have been prepared to turn into a parachute or loose fitting clothes at the least. She did not have to turn into clothing at all for that matter. They were out in the middle of nowhere with no one else around. Nadette took the one option which would give her sexual gratification ... spandex. Or maybe more like a latex body suit. I think the term cat suit is one relating to the latex body suit worn by a cat-like character in movies.

In a manner of speaking she raped Atsali. Getting her jollies on a totally clueless teen. She covered Atsali somewhat like how the Tar poured itself over Monica. At the least, one could say she fondled/groped her. Atsali was almost certainly naked at the time. The sex drive can make people do things they know they should not do. Things totally out of character (just look at the bizarre mating rituals of other animals) It's only later that people can have pangs of remorse and even revulsion over their actions. At the time their brains are overwhelmed by hormones. Especially so by teenage hormones. Basically it seemed like a really good idea at the time. And I think this is part of the reason Nadette is crying. Being rejected and having done a bad thing. She may also be afraid of repercussions now. I don't think she expected to be caught in the act by gramma Lily. And you sure as heck can't pull the cat suit over her millennia old eyes. She has seen, and probably done, it all. Several hundred times.

[sheik]

I think Atsali is right to be concerned about Mama.
I can hear the gears turning from here.
I'm just wondering if Kath is taking Nadette's feelings into account.
If she is, I'm gonna have a whole lot more respect for that woman than I already have.

[GlytchMeister]

...In a manner of speaking she raped Atsali. Getting her jollies on a totally clueless teen. She covered Atsali somewhat like how the Tar poured itself over Monica. At the least, one could say she fondled/groped her...

O_e

Gawd, how did I not see that perspective. [facepalm] the more I look at this situation and the more closely I inspect it, the more complicated it gets. It's like a friggin fractal.

Man, feelings are hard. A part of me just wants to see Bud throw a mountain so I can throw math at it and gawk at the results, but another part of me wants to keep this current style of story so I can learn social protocols from the forum discussions. People are throwing wisdom left and right in here.

(Yes, I meant social protocols in a similar manner as Sheldon Cooper.)

[Thor]

In a manner of speaking she raped Atsali. Getting her jollies on a totally clueless teen. She covered Atsali somewhat like how the Tar poured itself over Monica. At the least, one could say she fondled/groped her.

1. "Rape" is a strong word for a serious crime. We do no one a favor by weakening its impact when we use it for lesser offenses.
2. The Tar did more than just "pour itself over Monica". What the Tar did was unequivocably rape. Even at worst, what Nadette did to Atsali was not rape.
3. Both fondling and groping assume both intent and activity. There was no indication of squeezing or stroking going on. Nadette may have been wrapped around Atsali--which due to the nature of the function she was performing was unavoidable at the time--but we don't have any indication that she was doing anything other than passively copping a feel. (And actually, we don't technically have proof on that either. Nadette may have tried to do the right thing and not extended her nerve endings to her interior surface. But Nadette's behavior and statements strongly imply otherwise.)
4. Also, without knowing what Nadette knew would happen and when she knew it, we don't know if this exercise in exceedingly close contact was premeditated or not, which could mitigate the severity of her transgression.

I'm not saying that what Nadette actions didn't cross some lines, but we shouldn't take that as fuel to go on a witch hunt or a lynch mob. Nadette's knowledge and intentions matter, and we don't have a clear picture of them yet. It could easily be the case that after that kiss, Nadette thought that Atsali had given the green light to them being a couple, and that the whole jumpsuit thing was just a bit of naughty play between lovers. Bad on Nadette for not getting clear signal confirmation first, but far less heinous than if she had masterminded a plot to get Atsali in a situation where she was powerless to escape Nadette's touch. When evil masterminds are thwarted, they tend to seethe and rant and stomp their little feet, not close their eyes and weep.

Hopefully by the end of the week, we'll know more of the whole story, and we'll be able to assign the appropriate scarlet letter.

[illiad]

Too many people are thinking with their corrupted minds, and have forgotten what it was like when they had NO idea of the sexual world...

[GlytchMeister]

Yeah... There might be better seen as a kind of spectrum.
Y'know, on one end, there's doing the "yawn and put arm around shoulder trick" too soon, and at the other end there's full-on rape, and somewhere in the middle is what Nadette has been pulling.
It's... Grey. Not white or black.

Too many people are thinking with their corrupted minds, and have forgotten what it was like when they had NO idea of the sexual world...

For some of us, our minds have been too thoroughly corrupted by the Internet. I was an active surfer when Shock Sites were popular. Innocence lost.

[Avenger_Reloaded]

I think this is a matter of some things have to be believed to be seen.
Atsali does not believe Nadette is coming on to her. As a result she does not see what is obvious to us.
In seeing Nadette crying earlier I wonder if she knows Atsali will not be with her either. To be able to hold the one you love so close, and know it can never be, must be heartbreaking.
I'm guessing here but it seems that every time Nadette gets "closer" to Atsali she gets clearer glimpses of what is to come? In this adventure, could it be she has gleaned too much of Lanthis from Astali's mind.
Could the crying have been from knowing more not of Atsali but of the hopes lives and dreams of all those who no longer live? That too, would be much to be burdened with.

[Thor]

You know, in a lot of ways, this whole thing is completely farcical.

ATSALI: Okay, I know that I may have bent a few rules when I destroyed the last remnants of an ancient technology that could have destroyed the world . . .
KATH: That's not important. What's important here is finding out if your friend felt you up.
ATSALI: What.

[Thor]

she's only been with Kath for about 18 months

More like 4 months. 6 months, tops.

[ValiantAngel]

Her shift hit the fan(girl)!

*clink*

*clink* *clink* *clink* *clink* *clink* *clink* *clink* *clink* *clink*

[jwhouk]

You know, in a lot of ways, this whole thing is completely farcical.

ATSALI: Okay, I know that I may have bent a few rules when I destroyed the last remnants of an ancient technology that could have destroyed the world . . .
KATH: That's not important. What's important here is finding out if your friend felt you up.
ATSALI: What.

Now, now, just because you put it that way... It's likely that Kath agrees with the blowing up of the Lanthians, because of all the F'ed up crap they inflicted on her and the ones she loves. But she knows what's more important to Atsali, right then and there.

she's only been with Kath for about 18 months

More like 4 months. 6 months, tops.

See, we've had this discussion before about how Paul uses "comic-book time". Sorry, but I contend that Kath has been Momma to Atsali and Castela since about mid-year 2013.

[Sgt. Howard]

Too many people are thinking with their corrupted minds, and have forgotten what it was like when they had NO idea of the sexual world...

I am probably the most corrupt one of the lot, but I actually remember being that clueless... read my earlier text

[KnightDelight]

Too many people are thinking with their corrupted minds, and have forgotten what it was like when they had NO idea of the sexual world...

I'm not sure Nadette is all that innocent when it comes to sex. She seems to know her way around someone else's mouth pretty well, while Atsali didn't seem to have much of a clue how to answer in kind. She is also rather free with the breast touching and squeezing. Not just here but in the past as well. She appears to feel free to be sexually aggressive in ways which seem to indicate a degree of sexual prowess possibly beyond her years. Perhaps one or more previous affairs? She is hot to trot for girls and may have found like minds in the past. Or worse, she has been seriously molested. Possibly by an adult female. From what I understand a sign of molestation is children acting out in a sexually aggressive way when they should still have no real clue what it is all about. As we all know, children who have been abused tend to become abusers, whether the abuse be violence or sexual. Nadette may be carrying baggage similar to what Monica and Jette carried around most of their lives. Unfortunately it doesn't much look like we will hear Nadette's end of things this week, but she's suddenly upset about something. The last we viewed the situation at lava land, she was glibly denying everything. So something happened in between. Perhaps she was confronted with her current self she and didn't much like what she saw.

[GlytchMeister]

Perhaps she (Nadette) was confronted with her current self she and didn't much like what she saw.

Stare too long into the abyss... And the abyss stares back. Character is who you are in the dark (somebody's signature here). Abysses tend to be rather dark.

Perhaps Nadette fell into the abyss, and saw who she is in the dark staring back at her.

[Thor]

You know, in a lot of ways, this whole thing is completely farcical.

ATSALI: Okay, I know that I may have bent a few rules when I destroyed the last remnants of an ancient technology that could have destroyed the world . . .
KATH: That's not important. What's important here is finding out if your friend felt you up.
ATSALI: What.

Now, now, just because you put it that way... It's likely that Kath agrees with the blowing up of the Lanthians, because of all the F'ed up crap they inflicted on her and the ones she loves. But she knows what's more important to Atsali, right then and there.

But the funny thing is that Atsali doesn't think it's more important to Atsali. She's like, omigod! What are you talking about? Nothing is going on, mom! Chill.

she's only been with Kath for about 18 months

More like 4 months. 6 months, tops.

See, we've had this discussion before about how Paul uses "comic-book time". Sorry, but I contend that Kath has been Momma to Atsali and Castela since about mid-year 2013.

Our time, sure, but mapping our time to Wapsi time just doesn't make sense. And I've spent a good portion of the day archive-diving to prove it.

First of all your contention that Kath has been Momma to Atsali and Castela since about mid-year 2013. The Wapsi day that started with Kath deciding that she needed an adventure and ending with Kath adopting Atsali and Pickle ran from January 25th 2013 to August 1 2013 our time. So which end point should be considered the start of the adoption? It was all the same day for them. If we choose the beginning strip as the one that fixes the date instead of the end (and why not?) then by your interpretation of time flow, Atsali and Pickle have been with Kath for just over two years. And since Atsali declared herself to be 15 on that Wapsi day, she should be at least 17 if time flows the same. And Pickle should be in 2nd grade.

But we can disprove that. The day of the paranormal mall shopping was when Atsali met Nadette and Berdine. That day (when they were buying clothes for Winter) started on October 28 of 2013 and ended on December 12 of 2013. Later, Berdine tells Cricket that they met Atsali just after the start of the school year. Not the previous school year--"the" school year, i.e., the year that they were currently in. The Wapsi day that this happens (and we all meet Cricket) starts on June 24 of 2014 and ends August 15 of 2014. If time was loosely 1-to-1 with real time, then this conversation wouldn't be happening in the school cafeteria as it would be in the middle of Summer Vacation. However know that that can't be because Winter Break has not happened yet. And we know that Winter Break has not happened yet because later we are in the middle of Winter Break as mentioned in this strip. That strip is smack dab in the middle of the current Wapsi day, which started on December 15 of 2014 and goes to the present.

So we have nailed down the start of the school year (end of August/beginning of September) and Winter Break (end of December/Beginning of January). That conclusively gives us a span of about 4 months elapsing between the strip for October 28 2013 and the strip for March 12 2015. For this block of strips, 4 Wapsi months is equivalent to nearly 15 real months. This also makes sense from a narrative point of view as it means that Cricket has been under the tutelage of Monica for around 2 months, not 8. It also means that Jet and Monica reunited about 4 months ago instead of 17 months ago.

[illiad]

Too many people are thinking with their corrupted minds, and have forgotten what it was like when they had NO idea of the sexual world...

I'm not sure Nadette is all that innocent when it comes to sex. She seems to know her way around someone else's mouth pretty well, while Atsali didn't seem to have much of a clue how to answer in kind. She is also rather free with the breast touching and squeezing. Not just here but in the past as well. She appears to feel free to be sexually aggressive in ways which seem to indicate a degree of sexual prowess possibly beyond her years. Perhaps one or more previous affairs? She is hot to trot for girls and may have found like minds in the past. Or worse, she has been seriously molested. Possibly by an adult female. From what I understand a sign of molestation is children acting out in a sexually aggressive way when they should still have no real clue what it is all about. As we all know, children who have been abused tend to become abusers, whether the abuse be violence or sexual. Nadette may be carrying baggage similar to what Monica and Jette carried around most of their lives. Unfortunately it doesn't much look like we will hear Nadette's end of things this week, but she's suddenly upset about something. The last we viewed the situation at lava land, she was glibly denying everything. So something happened in between. Perhaps she was confronted with her current self she and didn't much like what she saw.

well, you dont seem to have been close friends in a French family!! all this touching is very natural, just a sign of friendship and openness.. they wonder why UK and America make such a fuss over such a normal, natural thing... " zut! have the Americans stabbed someone??? no, some stupid girl showed her breasts! stupid news people!!!... {{yawn}} "