Deal With It 2014-11-24

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by jwhouk » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:38 am

Someone who has a conscience ripped from them becomes twice as bad as someone who never had one in the first place.

It's also possible that Calista is capable of doing things that no fae before may be able to do - and I'm not talking about gliding on spider silk.
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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by Atomic » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:25 am

This is good. M is hard up against the wall of her own limitations, fearing for her competence and that lack thereof affecting Callista and, basically, anyone!

She can't read a book on how to ride bicycles -- she's going to have to do it, bumps, scrapes, and all.
Don't let other peoples limitations become your constraints!

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by Boxilar » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:04 am

I honestly think if Monica had come to Phix asking for advice, Phix would have given her some guidance.

But that's not what she did. M came in and began whining about how horrible and unsuited for the job she is. Phix has likely played the role of mentor before Monica and Shelly. She's too good at it.
Xe
Yeah, Monica kind of got shoved int a position with power she never really wanted by beings who were manipulating her life. But she's complaining to someone who has been stuck in a job she didn't really want at first for at least eighty thousand years. Phix had obligatons imposed on her that went along with who and what she is. Monica now has obligation attached to who and what she is. And Phix is going to see that she lives up to them.

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by eee » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:25 am

I am starting to wonder is Phix's unbending insistence that Monica has to be the one to mentor Calista is entirely for Cricket's benefit. Phix is good at human psychology, she may believe that forcing Monica to help the Princess grow up will help HER grow up, as well. Under those circumstances, NATURALLY any balking on M's part would get stomped down the moment she tried it. After all, an immature, psychologically unbalanced, immortal Jaguar Girl would be a danger to all paranormals, and humanity too.

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by Dave » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:59 am

eee wrote:I am starting to wonder is Phix's unbending insistence that Monica has to be the one to mentor Calista is entirely for Cricket's benefit. Phix is good at human psychology, she may believe that forcing Monica to help the Princess grow up will help HER grow up, as well. Under those circumstances, NATURALLY any balking on M's part would get stomped down the moment she tried it. After all, an immature, psychologically unbalanced, immortal Jaguar Girl would be a danger to all paranormals, and humanity too.
Quite possible!

Monica and Calista both have issues to deal with, that have somewhat in common. "Dealing with your dark side" sorta sums it up. For Monica it's the hate and anger which came from being disbelieved, tormented, confined to an institution, and then repeatedly raped. For Cricket, it's the vengeful rage which came from being publicly humiliated. Both of them are capable of doing serious damage to others if they act out these dark feelings... both are powerful, and neither is in full control of her own power. Both of them are now ashamed of the impact they've had on others. Both know they can do more damage if they aren't careful. They are, in these ways, mirrors for one another.

Calista has to learn how to control herself, or face "house arrest" or confinement. If Monica goes open-loop (and her "showing off" in public with Shelly is a very small example of how obvious and disruptive she could be), how would or could other paranormals react? I'm not sure she could be confined, she maybe can't be "put down" short of tossing her into the sun, and she could do a lot of damage in a fight. She needs to be "socialized" in her new sub-Titan role, just as badly as Cricket does.

Perhaps, in figuring out how to guide Cricket towards a healthier reationship with the rest of the world, Monica will be forced to figure out the same answers as they apply to herself. And, perhaps, that's part of what Phix is thinking.

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by Warrl » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:00 am

DilyV wrote:Even though time has passed since realizing who and what she was, I'm not so sure {Monica}'s really got a handle on exactly what her limitations are.
And she knows they are far enough out there that learning by experimentation is a bad idea.

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by txmystic » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:47 am

jwhouk wrote:I KNEW Phix would be involved in this.
Kinda hard not to see that coming...was she expecting a cookie?

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by CPUGuy1 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:16 pm

Yeah! :shock:
No more need to be said. :lol:
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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by DilyV » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:14 pm

zachariah wrote:
DilyV wrote:FWIW, here's my two cents...

I think Monica was speaking more generally about all of it... Cricket, Jet, Kevin... and it appears that Phix was concentrating solely on the problem with Cricket. If you ask me, Monica oughta stand up and give Phix a rap on the beak... bring her down a notch or two. Or Three.
Last time she tried that Phix killed her. She came back but being dead hurts.
As soon as she has Phix's attention, tell her in forceful terms that she feels she's been thrown in the deep end without being taught how to swim so to speak. I think all Monica is looking for is some guidance on how to deal with this mess. Not just Cricket, but all of it. Even though time has passed since realizing who and what she was, I'm not so sure she's really got a handle on exactly what her limitations are. As powerful as she knows she is, I don't blame her for wanting someone to help her out with a little information and maybe some training. She's been thrown way out of her comfort zone. Everything she's thought she was is being challenged. She's an omnipotent creature inside of a human shell forced to deal with things she isn't prepared to deal with. Parenting (cricket), Loss (Kevin) and a budding bisexuality (at least) with Jet. Up to this point (well, beginning with the reappearance of Jet at Mucho Mocha), Monica never believed she swung that way. Sure, we saw Mon and Shelly joke around a few times about it but nothing ever so serious. All of her self imposed notions about herself are being bent, broken, spindled and mutilated and she's scared shitless over it. She needs Phix's guidance to teach her how to deal and her assurance that she DOES have it within herself to produce a good outcome.
This is not a someone looking for guidance. It's a whinny justification to get out of doing a job. Rather than trying to find a way to deal with Cricket she grabbed the current mess of her personal life and tried to use it as an excuse to get out of helping cricket. Of course she was conned into the job in the first place, but she did accept it in the end. Comparing Phix to a DI is a pretty good one. Phix is not going to let Monica cop out on the job. Nor cut her any slack just because Monica is having a bad day.[/quote]

The last time she smacked Phix on the beak she got respect and phix's attention. Monica was killed when she stepped in front of Phix to protect Lily and Suzi. Also, I'm not saying she's not being whiney... I'm saying that the reason she IS being whiney is because she hasn't been sat down and really had her full abilities and her role in the world explained to her yet. Monica whines because she doesn't think she adds up to what's expected of her. Taking care of wayward young paranormals is so far outside of her line of experience its not funny. Put her in a museum full of ancient artifacts and she's cozy in her skin. Force being a parental figure on her and it scares the living crap out of her. "You can do this, Monica." is a far cry from "This is what you are capable of and this is your role in the world." Sure, she knows she's the Jaguar Girl and Demon Shepherd, and she knows (instinctively?) how to handle that. She knows she has the ability to pull out a person's worst fear and make them face that. What I think her problem is, she doesn't feel she can control that aspect of her powers. She sees what she did to Nudge and also what she did to the Tar and it scares the living crap out of her that she can be so evil (in her eyes) without even thinking about it. I think she's scared that she might react before thinking and hurt someone who doesn't deserve it. Phix getting in her face isn't going to fix that OR reassure Monica.
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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by illiad » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:29 pm

zachariah wrote:
This is not a someone looking for guidance. It's a whinny justification to get out of doing a job. Rather than trying to find a way to deal with Cricket she grabbed the current mess of her personal life and tried to use it as an excuse to get out of helping cricket. Of course she was conned into the job in the first place, but she did accept it in the end. Comparing Phix to a DI is a pretty good one. Phix is not going to let Monica cop out on the job. Nor cut her any slack just because Monica is having a bad day.
well if she does not get guidance, she will rapidly turn into a hermit.... :( and yes, if Phix gives her more aggression, she has enough power to MAKE her listen!!! :P

Buuuuut.... It may just be a ruse to get M to realise she must be strong.... ???

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by Catawampus » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:12 pm

Monica's telling Phix that she hurts others. . .while they're both standing in front of Phix's Wall-O-Skulls. I suspect that Phix might have some experience on a personal level with this sort of thing.
jwhouk wrote:Now, we get a week or so of moping Monica dealing with Cricket, then a brief sojourn back to GHS, and then... Bud and Kevin are on their FIRST DATE???
Or, just to mess with our heads, a series of strips for the holidays showing us what's (supposedly) been going on with other characters lately:

Kevin is on his first date with Tina, a triple date that also has Shelly with Justin and Connie with Darin.

Katherine has taken her expertise with ancient textiles and started a joint venture with Lydia to create a new line of products catering to paranormals with atypical undergarment needs.

Atsali and Castela came up with a plan to introduce Jacob to Atsali, but instead Jacob ended up bonding in some deep and mysterious manner to young Castela. All works out, however, as Atsali meets Jacob's vampire friend, Ed.

Euryale is inducted into Stinky's tribe after reuniting them with their lost leader, Oscar.

Becky and Nudge make a fortune selling anchovy pastries.

Tsillah is taken to court for not having Boo and Baxter licensed or on leashes in the city. Dietzel offers to be her legal counsel.

Calista and Krystle work out a way of making piezoelectric-powered cigarette lighters that can work underwater, a great convenience to mermaids with a nicotine habit.

Bia and Phix had to take a cross-country road trip together, during which they experienced whimsical adventures, dramatic revelations, the true meanings of forgiveness and friendship, and various techniques to clean bloodstains out of apparel.
MerchManDan wrote:Cripes, Phix, no need to bite the woman's head off!
Sometimes yelling at people is the best way to get them to stop listening to the voices in their own head and to start really listening to what you yourself are saying to them.
zachariah wrote:Last time she tried that Phix killed her. She came back but being dead hurts.
And it cost her a $350 bra. That might be even greater reason to Monica for avoiding a repeat.
zachariah wrote:I wonder why we think there will be world shaking problems for everyone if Cricket does not get help. Phix wanted her to get help because Cricket was showing signs of becoming a very unusual Fae who showed signs of compassion and caring. This is an attempt to help her become a kinder, gentler Fae when she eventually takes the throne. If it fails then cricket becomes just like the other fae. People have been dealing with fae a long time so Cricket won't be a spectacularly bad problem to deal with, just the usual fae issues.
Well, Cricket isn't going to be an ordinary fae, she's going to be a clan leader (whatever that means). She'll probably have a lot of influence over a great many other fae. So not only would her being a typical fae result in typical fae values still being official policy (and all of the harm that that could entail to everybody else, which could be considerable), but there's the loss of what could have been accomplished if she had been made more conscientious and restrained.

One thing I wonder about her situation is who all was responsible for deciding on her punishment. Apparently somebody ruled that Calista's options were to stay under house arrest, be sent to Tartarus, or be mentored by the Jaguar Girl. But who made that ruling? She just said that it was "the school". How much input did Phix have in all of this? Is Phix also being pressured by some higher-ups to get things sorted out?

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by meisdadoo » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:39 pm

zachariah wrote:
Boxilar wrote:
AnotherFairportfan wrote:Tough love, huh?
Quoth the author on Facebook;

what the possible consequences would be to everyone involved if Monica fails with Calista.
I wonder why we think there will be world shaking problems for everyone if Cricket does not get help. Phix wanted her to get help because Cricket was showing signs of becoming a very unusual Fae who showed signs of compassion and caring. This is an attempt to help her become a kinder, gentler Fae when she eventually takes the throne. If it fails then cricket becomes just like the other fae. People have been dealing with fae a long time so Cricket won't be a spectacularly bad problem to deal with, just the usual fae issues.
The key words in today's panel are ". . .I only care about myself. . " Having an immortal sub-titan loose on the planet that lacks the ability to care about others would not be a new concept--plenty of titans and sub-titans in the past have been there and done that. However, an immortal, subtitan DEMON SHEPHERD, that lacked the ability to care about others could be a very bad thing for everyone and everything: Demons, paranormals, humans, animals, insects, plants, etc.

I got the distinct impression that the little fae princess was specifically chosen to be Monica's "student" just because they are so much alike. And Monica needs to learn the very thing she has been assigned to teach. Put simply, they both need a much better understanding and acceptance of "Noblesse oblige"

Noblesse oblige is a French phrase literally meaning "obligation of Nobility". It is the concept that nobility extends beyond mere entitlements and requires the person with such status to fulfill social responsibilities, particularly in leadership roles.

The Dictionnaire de l’Académie française defines it thus:
1. Whoever claims to be noble must conduct himself nobly.
2. One must act in a fashion that conforms to one's position, and with the reputation that one has earned.

And from ‘murica:
“ . . . duty, obligation, responsibility - the social force that binds you to the courses of action demanded by that force; we must instill a sense of duty in our children"; "every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty"- John D. Rockefeller Jr.
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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by Dave » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:02 pm

Catawampus wrote:Or, just to mess with our heads, a series of strips for the holidays showing us what's (supposedly) been going on with other characters lately:
You, my friend, have an admirably warped mind! :lol:
zachariah wrote:Last time she tried that Phix killed her. She came back but being dead hurts.
And it cost her a $350 bra. That might be even greater reason to Monica for avoiding a repeat.
Minor causality nit here: Monica smacked Phix in the chops after Phix accidentally killed her, and after Monica's resurrection flames burned up her expensive bra. Neither her death nor the destruction of her undergarment were caused by her taking a swing at Phix.

Granted, if she does decide to go sphinx-smiting again, she should probably switch over to a bargain-store cheapie bra first.
zachariah wrote:I wonder why we think there will be world shaking problems for everyone if Cricket does not get help. Phix wanted her to get help because Cricket was showing signs of becoming a very unusual Fae who showed signs of compassion and caring. This is an attempt to help her become a kinder, gentler Fae when she eventually takes the throne. If it fails then cricket becomes just like the other fae. People have been dealing with fae a long time so Cricket won't be a spectacularly bad problem to deal with, just the usual fae issues.
Well, Cricket isn't going to be an ordinary fae, she's going to be a clan leader (whatever that means). She'll probably have a lot of influence over a great many other fae. So not only would her being a typical fae result in typical fae values still being official policy (and all of the harm that that could entail to everybody else, which could be considerable), but there's the loss of what could have been accomplished if she had been made more conscientious and restrained.
And I suspect that's the big goal of whomever in the paranormal community is pushing Monica into this role. I get the sense that the other paranormals consider the Fae to be a problem... they're powerful, self-absorbed to the point of being sociopaths, and downright dangerous. That is not a good combination, for a paranormal community that's trying to maintain a Masquerade to protect its weaker members against notice by humans. It's possible (considering what Phix said to Monica and Shelly) that the Masquerade is more at risk now than it has been in the past... the development of the Internet and world-wide communication have made it much easier for people to share information about "unusual happenings". So, the actions and behavior of the Good Folk may be of bigger concern now, than centuries or millennia ago).

Moving the Fae in a direction of "Be thoughtful, and play nice" could have huge benefits for the paranormal community as a whole. "A riot is an ugly thing..."

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by Catawampus » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:31 pm

meisdadoo wrote:I got the distinct impression that the little fae princess was specifically chosen to be Monica's "student" just because they are so much alike. And Monica needs to learn the very thing she has been assigned to teach. Put simply, they both need a much better understanding and acceptance of "Noblesse oblige"

Noblesse oblige is a French phrase literally meaning "obligation of Nobility". It is the concept that nobility extends beyond mere entitlements and requires the person with such status to fulfill social responsibilities, particularly in leadership roles.

The Dictionnaire de l’Académie française defines it thus:
1. Whoever claims to be noble must conduct himself nobly.
2. One must act in a fashion that conforms to one's position, and with the reputation that one has earned.

And from ‘murica:
“ . . . duty, obligation, responsibility - the social force that binds you to the courses of action demanded by that force; we must instill a sense of duty in our children"; "every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty"- John D. Rockefeller Jr.
Though in the original sense, "noblesse oblige" generally was only based on your actions towards your peers. You could behave however you wanted towards those of inferior social class, and it wouldn't reflect on your chivalrous social standing. Such a mindset might be one of the very dangers that various characters in this story are trying to prevent.

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by illiad » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:49 pm

... and yet, they are ONLY children.... :roll: ( adults will appear, say sorry for the mess, all things will be restored, and punishments made... :) )

Reminds me of a star trek ep, with an 'all powerful being' doing all sorts of magical things with the crew...

It only ends with..

{distant voice} "Stephen! put down your toys and come to dinner!!! "

{being} "awwww, mum!!!!"

{distant voice} "do you WANT me get get your father???"

{being} "awwww..." (he disappears)

All crew are returned to normal.... :P :P :)

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by meisdadoo » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:52 pm

Catawampus wrote:
meisdadoo wrote:I got the distinct impression that the little fae princess was specifically chosen to be Monica's "student" just because they are so much alike. And Monica needs to learn the very thing she has been assigned to teach. Put simply, they both need a much better understanding and acceptance of "Noblesse oblige"

Noblesse oblige is a French phrase literally meaning "obligation of Nobility". It is the concept that nobility extends beyond mere entitlements and requires the person with such status to fulfill social responsibilities, particularly in leadership roles.

The Dictionnaire de l’Académie française defines it thus:
1. Whoever claims to be noble must conduct himself nobly.
2. One must act in a fashion that conforms to one's position, and with the reputation that one has earned.

And from ‘murica:
“ . . . duty, obligation, responsibility - the social force that binds you to the courses of action demanded by that force; we must instill a sense of duty in our children"; "every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty"- John D. Rockefeller Jr.
Though in the original sense, "noblesse oblige" generally was only based on your actions towards your peers. You could behave however you wanted towards those of inferior social class, and it wouldn't reflect on your chivalrous social standing. Such a mindset might be one of the very dangers that various characters in this story are trying to prevent.
While it is true that in the days of serfdom the serfs got the worst and the nobles got the best, the term is not really that old.
See http://learningtogive.org/papers/paper38.html for a short paper on the history and meaning of "noblesse oblige"
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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by MerchManDan » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:03 pm

Catawampus wrote:
MerchManDan wrote:Cripes, Phix, no need to bite the woman's head off!
Sometimes yelling at people is the best way to get them to stop listening to the voices in their own head and to start really listening to what you yourself are saying to them.
Certainly true. I wasn't really faulting Phix for that, I just wanted an excuse to make that joke. ;)
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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by bmonk » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:44 pm

meisdadoo wrote:
Catawampus wrote:
meisdadoo wrote:I got the distinct impression that the little fae princess was specifically chosen to be Monica's "student" just because they are so much alike. And Monica needs to learn the very thing she has been assigned to teach. Put simply, they both need a much better understanding and acceptance of "Noblesse oblige"

Noblesse oblige is a French phrase literally meaning "obligation of Nobility". It is the concept that nobility extends beyond mere entitlements and requires the person with such status to fulfill social responsibilities, particularly in leadership roles.

The Dictionnaire de l’Académie française defines it thus:
1. Whoever claims to be noble must conduct himself nobly.
2. One must act in a fashion that conforms to one's position, and with the reputation that one has earned.

And from ‘murica:
“ . . . duty, obligation, responsibility - the social force that binds you to the courses of action demanded by that force; we must instill a sense of duty in our children"; "every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty"- John D. Rockefeller Jr.
Though in the original sense, "noblesse oblige" generally was only based on your actions towards your peers. You could behave however you wanted towards those of inferior social class, and it wouldn't reflect on your chivalrous social standing. Such a mindset might be one of the very dangers that various characters in this story are trying to prevent.
While it is true that in the days of serfdom the serfs got the worst and the nobles got the best, the term is not really that old.
See http://learningtogive.org/papers/paper38.html for a short paper on the history and meaning of "noblesse oblige"
While the term may be only a few centuries old, the idea started long before that. Even in the Roman Republic, the Patricians were effectively limited to a political career, or else to caring for the family estates, because they were "better" than others, and this was their obligation--to lead. This is why Sulla, for example, allowed plebians to begin the cursus honorum at age 30, but patricians at age 28. Even after the Western Empire fell, the idea that nobles should lead, should have honor was promoted, if rather observed more in the breech than in actual behavior. And this ideal was laid out in various ways--including knightly codes and orders like the Garter. It was also helpful in creating local leadership through the nobility in England, which had benefits later when democracy was developing--consider the difference between England's (and the USA and Canada) democratic tradition, and, say, France's autocracy, which made true democracy much more dificult.

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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by Wyvern » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:09 pm

Boxilar wrote:I honestly think if Monica had come to Phix asking for advice, Phix would have given her some guidance.

This, really. Not necessarily advice, either. It's my thought that Monica could have expressed the same doubts and said very much the same things yet retained good will if she'd just prefaced the whole emotion dump by telling Phix she was feeling conflicted and needed to vent at someone. Then she could have run on about her current drama and Phix, at the end, could have propped her back up and sent her on her way. (I'm told similar things happen when young lieutenants are alone with senior officers.) But Monica just came in with her "I Suck" speech, so she got Phix's "Put On Your Big Girl Panties" response.
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Re: Deal With It 2014-11-24

Post by Yamara » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:50 pm

Despite Paul's insistence, and everyone's comments, I just don't see how Monica is bound to volunteer. It's not the army, and if whinging is her only excuse, what are they going to do? Phix could eat her, and she'd just rebirth in her stomach and poit away. Sucks, it's the low road, it's letting everyone down, her hero days are done, but she can walk away.

It's not as though she's made a Dire Oath in Hatred before a witness that can enforce the terms of th--

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