Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

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kingklash
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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by kingklash » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:37 am

Trying to protect others from her damage may have damaged others.

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by oldmanmickey » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:42 am

I can see Kevin and Bud teaming up to "save" M. This could get real picky if it goes south.
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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by Thor » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:49 am

oldmanmickey wrote:I can see Kevin and Bud teaming up to "save" M. This could get real picky if it goes south.
I don't see it. Bud knows enough about Tina and Tina's nature to recklessly run counter to what she says. Tina can tell no lies.

I could see Bud sending Kevin to talk to Tina, just to see what comes out of Tina's mouth about him. Maybe she'll send him to sunnier climes for the winter.

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by AmriloJim » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:41 am

AnotherFairportfan wrote:Not possessive - contraction, "she is"
Tha's whut I ment... thanks!

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illiad
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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by illiad » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:33 am

AnotherFairportfan wrote: She was apparently in and out of institutions.

It's been alluded to several times - Monica almost lost it with Amanda once when she thought that Amanda was suggesting that she was less than stable and ought to see a shrink, which Monica saw as the first step back to the Quiet Home for the Very Very Nervous.
well what would you say to a friend that said 'I can see demons' and 'I can do real magic' ??? very dubious, where's the funny farm' etc...
you missed the part (2 strips previous) where she *proved* it...

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by zachariah » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:42 am

See Bud is not hitting on Kevin. She is concerned about him and lending an ear and supplying some answers. Kevin needs those answers to deal with his own inner turmoil about Monica. Having your significant other suddenly drop a barrel full of their past history, and a nasty bit it was, on you and then use it as an excuse to dump you is rough. He loves her enough to want to help and is being shoved out the door because she wants to protect him. This shouts to him that she does not want his help and just wants him to go away. But nothing he's done justifies being treated this way. It's a cruel contradiction to toss onto anyone. Bud is explaining why in a way Kevin can understand and possibly accept. He isn't going to forget and forgive Monica but he will start to get over the unfair being dumped feeling a bit sooner without ending up hating Monica.
Ambush questions are fun. Watching the mental impact of them as they distort, or crumble, opinions based on faulty logic.

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by Kerric » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:49 am

Bud's interpretation of M's behavior (driving away those to whom she had been close) seems very different (and darker) than Tina's interpretation (two souls reaching out to each other who desperately want to be together). Do you think one of them is right and the other wrong? Or can the two interpretations be reconciled?

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by zachariah » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:50 am

Jay-Em wrote: M has once described herself as a sociopath. I am still not sure if it's meant as a cop-out, so as to absolve herself from any responsibility, or that she really ís a sociopath. :pondering:
Monica is not a sociopath. She has some of those tendencies but then we all do. A real sociopath only evaluates events in terms of good or bad for them. If it doesn't impact them they ignore it. They will do what pleases them, or is good for them without consideration for others. Monica has consistently shown she does not do this! She has a caring heart that has been damaged and is very defensive. Adding the sub titan powers to this has not helped. I suspect the current trend is due to her being still coming to terms with the change to her. She is learning her powers and is now immortal. She is still afraid of hurting others and will push people away to keep from hurting them. Sadly sometimes the pushing will be brutal to her friends.
Ambush questions are fun. Watching the mental impact of them as they distort, or crumble, opinions based on faulty logic.

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by Just Old Al » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:43 am

Kerric wrote:Bud's interpretation of M's behavior (driving away those to whom she had been close) seems very different (and darker) than Tina's interpretation (two souls reaching out to each other who desperately want to be together). Do you think one of them is right and the other wrong? Or can the two interpretations be reconciled?
Two different facets of the same jewel, i might say. One is reaching toward something that may help, the other is clearing the decks for said help (though depressingly painful to those being cleared). Interpretation of motives becomes difficult when you're dealing with complex interactions with a complex personality.

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by AnotherFairportfan » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:04 am

Just Old Al wrote:
Kerric wrote:Bud's interpretation of M's behavior (driving away those to whom she had been close) seems very different (and darker) than Tina's interpretation (two souls reaching out to each other who desperately want to be together). Do you think one of them is right and the other wrong? Or can the two interpretations be reconciled?
Two different facets of the same jewel, i might say. One is reaching toward something that may help, the other is clearing the decks for said help (though depressingly painful to those being cleared). Interpretation of motives becomes difficult when you're dealing with complex interactions with a complex personality.

Al
It may, in fact, be the case that, right now, Monica and Jet are the halves of a single thing that both need, and that that thing is the only thing that they need or can accept.

==================

BTW:

Looking back to Tina's original reading of Jet, BTW, didn't Tina allude to Jet's grandfather in terms that sounded as if he'd be right at home buying rounds with Monica's grandfather in a London pub during WW2 - just before they decided to clear the joint?
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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by Just Old Al » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:46 am

AnotherFairportfan wrote: Looking back to Tina's original reading of Jet, BTW, didn't Tina allude to Jet's grandfather in terms that sounded as if he'd be right at home buying rounds with Monica's grandfather in a London pub during WW2 - just before they decided to clear the joint?
From your mouth to Pablo's ears...this is something that would make a great throwaway bit - a double set of frames showing G'Pas and Jet/Monica doing the same...leagues and decades apart... :)

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starkruzr
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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by starkruzr » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:56 am

Not that this is super surprising, but Mon never really trusted Kevin.

Oof. This is unraveling in a very unfortunate way very quickly.

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by DilyV » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:50 am

Ummm... something that no one seems to be giving thought to...

As famous as Jet appears to be, fashion model and all, wouldn't Monica's lie to Kevin come unraveled pretty quickly when all of the sudden TMZ pick up that Jet has a new and previously unknown girlfriend?

I suppose some could argue Monica didn't lie, but she did... a lie by omission. Sure, what she told him about her rape is certainly true, but that's not really why she's leaving him is it? Seems to me to be the convenient excuse. As far as we can tell, Kevin hasn't been told a word about Jet and Monica's feelings towards her. How is Kevin going to react when he sees Monica and Jet draped all over each other splashed across the front pages of all the scandal sheets? He thinks she left because of her rape issues... yet hasn't mentioned anything about her immediately picking up with another woman... especially one as reportedly famous as Jet. It is going to be a crushing blow when it comes out.

FAMOUS MODEL GEORGETTE FLYING HIGH WITH NEW GIRLFRIEND!

GEORGETTE SEEN COZY WITH NEW MYSTERY WOMAN!

This is just the kind of publicity Monica doesn't need, especially with her para-normailty issues. The stresses of being chased by paparazzi could well make Monica snap and bad things would happen that could pull the veil of secrecy off the existence of Paranormals. The MiB would be hard pressed to sweep that mess under the rug.
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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by Reani » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:51 am

First of all yeah, agreeing with the person who said Monica's not a true sociopath-- she shows remorse ALL the time. She was horrified by what she did to the Tar, even though in her place, many people would have reacted the same way against someone/thing that'd raped them, given the power. Yes, it was horrific but what it did to her was terrible, particularly given her history with rape and she reacted out of that raw emotion without thinking. After she did it though, her reaction was one of horror at her own actions-- which a sociopath doesn't have. She's also not very happy with what happened with Kevin herself (she claims to hate him in that panel (and I read that in the same facetious way I claim to hate my super successful younger sister) because he IS a good kind person and she caused him pain, and he reminded her of what a good kind person he is while she was doing it. Also she might realize she wouldn't handle it so well in his place) , and showed a lot of hesitance to break it off. A sociopath would have bailed the moment Jet showed up, wouldn't have pointed out that she had Kevin. A sociopath might even attempt to "keep" both Jet and Kevin, enjoying using Kevin too much to give it up once she realized she was doing it or came to accept it.

Monica's not crazy at all in a schizophrenic or delusional way, but she certainly has been through a lot of traumatic events in her life. I would guess, in my armchair psychologist way, that she's got quite a strong case of PSTD. She definitely could use counseling, anyway. (I believe that she mentioned she did see a counselor after the incident in the hospital, but so much has happened since then, and it'd probably help if it was a counselor who she could trust not to think she's nuts when she brings up the supernatural aspects, which are very important.) Anyway, people who've been hurt in the way Monica has tend to keep everyone at arm's distance regardless, and have trouble trusting anyone. I say this as someone who's had issues with this personally-- it's not that we don't like people, or even love them, but that we're terrified, and we can't help it and there's very little control there. There's this comment in Evangelion (I know, I know :roll: ) about how some people are like porcupines-- they want to get close to other people but they're scared of prickling them at the same time, and being prickled.

Honestly it's also very hard to know the right time to come out and tell people about things like that, even when you're in a close relationship. You have to know the person for a while, you're not going to tell them right away even when you start seriously dating, but then it becomes this issue of "but why didn't you tell me before", so you can't tell them then. And it just gets worse and worse. And every victim of sexual abuse or other trauma is different and deals with it differently and at a different pace, and that should be respected as well.

I don't know. I guess I'm trying to give some insight into Monica's thought process, or at least my reading of it. She's a very hurt person who needs help, and she's on a self destructive spiral, which is rather common in people like that. Pushing your friends and loved ones away is really common.

I don't know that Kevin and Bud are equipped to help her in the way she needs. I don't know if they want to, and if they don't that's perfectly understandable. Jet certainly doesn't seem to be, there's a case of the blind leading the blind there. And she doesn't seem to be aware of the fact that there's a problem and I know the saying about the first step is cheesy but it's true. You can't fix something if you don't know it's broken. It's very difficult to tell someone that something about them IS broken, and to do it in a way that won't just push them away further.

It's painful to see Kevin hurt like this, he's a kind and loveable character, but I am loving this storyline because of how much it makes me think and how compelling it is. It's conflicting.

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by Dave » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:58 am

txmystic wrote:Does Kevin only shave half of his face?
Hmmm. Even if that's just a quirk of Paul's chosen drawing style for today, there's an interesting symbolic precedent.

In the Bible, in 2 Samuel 10, it's written that David sent his servants to King Hanun of Ammon, to convey his condolences about the death of Hanun's father. The Ammonites suspected David's servents of being spies, seized them, and humiliated them... by shaving off half of their beards (and cutting off the lower half of their robes) and sending them away.

It's probably too cold for Kevin to be enacting the other half of the humiliation (walking around without pants), but this may give a hint about Paul's intentions for him. David told his humiliated messengers "Tarry at Jericho until your beards are grown, and then return."

I'm not really serious about this... but it was the most interesting analogy I found by google-searching "half shaven face".

Being told that he was only ever a chew-toy, has got to be a horrible gut-punch to Kevin's sense of self-worth. A sense of humiliation would only be natural.

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by Boxilar » Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:49 am

I've been where Kevin is at right now. Not to be all melodramatic or anything, but a girl I had been seeing for awhile tell me the she was feeling emotionally distant and wanted to break it off. My initial reaction was to tell her , that yeah, sure. A relationship only works if both parties want to be in it. I think part of the calmness was shock that it was happening, and part of it was because "emotionally distant" is near universal code for "I've found someone else". So I didn't want to let on how much it was hurting. So i basically told her to give me a call if she changed her mind. All she ever saw was a calm, emotionally detached person who handled it coolly. I found out later through mutual friends that she was upset that she didn't mean more to me. My friends and family, on the other hand, got to see me fall apart and wallow in self pity for about a month before I pulled myself together and got on with my life.

I'm thinking that's where Kevin is right now. He was calm and collected in the moment of the breakup, but now he's dealing with the aftermath.

There's also the part of me that wonders if is calmness and acceptance while dealing with Monica wasn't at least partly because he knew if he really made her mad, she could eviscerate him or teleport him into the sun.

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by Sidhekin » Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:55 am

I guess the surest sign that a story resonates with people, is that they start reading things into it. We aren't (yet) privy to things happening between panels.
DilyV wrote:As far as we can tell, Kevin hasn't been told a word about Jet and Monica's feelings towards her.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. She may well have told everything.

(Besides, he was told at least seven words about Jet. The first seven words of that talk: "Some-someone held a mirror up to me".)
Dave wrote:Being told that he was only ever a chew-toy, has got to be a horrible gut-punch to Kevin's sense of self-worth. A sense of humiliation would only be natural.
I doubt she actually used those words. :-P More likely, it's his reinterpretation of their time together, in light of what she did tell him. In which case, it's what he's telling himself.

Although, it doesn't seem too far from what Jet said (she even used the word "toy"), and M acknowledged: "If you can see through this, I'm sure he does too." So yeah, I guess I can see that. We just don't actually know.
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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by meisdadoo » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:20 pm

Since no one has brought it up yet, I will.

Bud: "I've seen you from my apartment for a few days now. . ."

Has Kevin been sitting on that bench in the snow for "several days" or does he go there daily and sit?
If he goes to one location on a daily basis to sit and think, that location must have special meaning to him.

And a mortal sitting on a Bench in winter snow would have been frozen solid by now--so there's that.

Things that make me go Hmmmm. . . .
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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by eee » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:35 pm

This is so not going well... :cry:
AnotherFairportfan wrote: It wasn't talking to her great-grandmother - who was actually there, being Someone Else in disguise - but her apparent suicide attempt, running in front of a bus in Mexico City, because she was being driven by her demons
Nitpick: Weren't they Tina's demons, out deliberately hurting Monica - someone other than their host - as part of the plan to fix the Calendar Machine and depose Jin's Doubt as Queen of the Demons? Although since Tina, driving behind the bus, wound up being killed when she slammed into the back as it stopped suddenly for Monica, her demons hurt her, too. :(

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Re: Tired of Hiding 2014-11-20

Post by Dave » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:36 pm

Sidhekin wrote:I doubt she actually used those words. :-P More likely, it's his reinterpretation of their time together, in light of what she did tell him. In which case, it's what he's telling himself.

Although, it doesn't seem too far from what Jet said (she even used the word "toy"), and M acknowledged: "If you can see through this, I'm sure he does too." So yeah, I guess I can see that. We just don't actually know.
I suspect you're right... but it's the underlying context which is the killer.

They've been together for years (Wapsi time). They've already been through one conflict/crisis due to the fact that Monica had chosen to hide her whole involvement with the paranormal from Kevin. She told him, only when forced to by circumstances. He didn't freak, didn't judge, has accepted the weirdness (including being poited into a womn's restroom) and has been cool and supportive.

Now, he learns that Monica had yet another piece of turbulent life-shaping history... which she didn't trust him to know about, despite what they'd been through before. And, now that she's chosen to disclose it to him, she doesn't want him to be any part of the life-process she's going to be going through to resolve it. She doesn't want, or doesn't trust, or won't accept his help and active support. She'd rather walk away from their relationship, than try to fix whatever she feels is wrong about it.

That has to be throwing a cold perspective on how he sees their relationship, looking back on it through the years. It's gotta be saying things to him, about the limitations of what he actually ever meant to her. "Chew-toy" is harsh, but I can see how he got there.

(And, yes, I agree... she doesn't "owe" him to stay with him... she has the right to make the choices she is... but that doesn't nullify the effect of those decisions on Kevin)
meisdadoo wrote:Since no one has brought it up yet, I will.

Bud: "I've seen you from my apartment for a few days now. . ."

Has Kevin been sitting on that bench in the snow for "several days" or does he go there daily and sit?
If he goes to one location on a daily basis to sit and think, that location must have special meaning to him.

And a mortal sitting on a Bench in winter snow would have been frozen solid by now--so there's that.

Things that make me go Hmmmm. . . .
Since Paul showed him walking up to the bench, and then Bud arriving and sitting down, I'm going to apply Occam's Razor and come down on the side of "He has been taking daily walks to the lakeside to sit and think, Bud has noticed him doing so for the last few days, and she finally decided to come down and see how he's doing."

The one good thing about the situation is that the lake appears to be fully frozen. It would be difficult for him to throw himself in, and drown his despair. :?

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