Snowfall 2014-11-19

[Jay-Em]

Waittaminute, Is that Bud??. (At least, I think it's her --> no giant boobs + just a tad shorter than Kev') That makes a whole lotta more sense than what I first thought: "M is going to explain/apologise/split-up for good..." Hence my "neutral place"remark.

If so: Aww.. Sweetheart knóws she's needed, if only as a sounding-board for "the unheard", Kevin, in this case.

[chaotik74]

snrk...sure, it's OK... Kevin's been handed off like a game piece to someone else a bunch of demons have determined is "more suitible", but i'm sure he'll work out fine. Hey, maybe he'll develop/discover supernatural powers too! Oh, and magically develop a huge rack. Or he'll be the catalyst for Bud developing some. whichever provides the best "fanservice"..assuming both of them aren't put on a bus altogether.

[Sidhekin]

Sheesh, the events of the comic, while pretty bad, are nowhere near as sad as the forum.

[captnq]

I like it.

Simple, minimalistic, direct. Well done.

As for the plot line, meh. It is what it is. The need to have Monica pick up the idiot ball is quite clear. No reason Bud wouldn't do what she's doing. I mean, it doesn't mean she's going to bang the guy. Girls don't get friendzoned all that often. She can be the friend for a while then just smack him in the head and say, "Hey, I like you THAT WAY." and that usually works.

[eee]

How do people go out in that kind of weather with nothing on their heads? No stocking cap, no hood up. Not even earmuffs. Even a cartoon character's ears would freeze off.

As noted, Bud is immune to the cold. And I doubt Kevin cares at this point.

Besides, it might not be good for Bud to be wearing her goober hat with the earflaps to this meeting.

Anyway, looks like Kevin has decided to hold a frigid pity party for himself. He's entitled I guess. And how did Bud find him? I doubt she'll hit on him yet. Just looking out for him I think, and she may have something from Monica to explain to him. No doubt she feels bad for him. He'll get over it in any event. Even he should have been able to see his relationship with Monica wasn't going anywhere to begin with. More so since she became a paranormal. Different life paths and all. This should not have come as a big shock to him. Though her turning lesbian may have been an unexpected blow. Not to mention the suddenness of it all. No lead in or falling out over time. That's often the worst part of such a breakup. Probably not as he envisioned things.

RE Bud finding him: If she was looking for him, she went to his home, found he wasn't there, and began poiting around town until she chanced on him.

It is also possible this is a random encounter.

Even if he gets with Bud, there would still be the issue of a mortal with an immortal. Worked out for Jin though, even before she took a dive into pseudo human mortality, but she did wrestle with it before then. So who knows. Seems like Bud and Brandy would have had relationships through their long existence. How did those go? They appear to have sexual urges and desires for a love interest even now, just like Jin. Otherwise it would have been a really. really long time to be celibate.

They don't have hormones, or biological urges. Obviously the GGG are capable of physical gratification, but the drive would mainly be psychological and emotional.

And Bud and Brandi were shut down for centuries.

As for an immortal / mortal pairing, I'm sure there are ways to make the mortal very long lived, if not immortal. This is also going to be a problem with Monica and Jet, as it was with Monica and Kevin.

[jwhouk]

Please see post here.

This could end up being a good thing for the two of these guys.

As for Monica... I still think she got the raw end of the deal. I mean, she's got to deal with all these demons...

[Jabberwonky]

If so, someone has to inform Kev' that there is no "Gay-switch"

I humbly submit this...

[Kerric]

Now I'm starting to hope we never see Kevin again just to make Thor stop complaining about his facial hair.

The story around Jet just loses me, the writing there just doesn't feel right or complete. And now it reminds me of this
actually.

I can relate to to that last panel with Kevin though. That kind of pain nearly ended me, so I'm out.

Thanks for having a fun comic overall and maybe I'll check back in a few years to see how this played out.

I don't get why somebody would go through the trouble of registering for a webcomic forum just to complain about the webcomic & declare their intent to never read it again. Seriously, why bother? Do they expect us to beg them not to go? To see the artist slap his forehead and say, "OH MY GOD you're right!! I shouldn't have done that!!" Cripes, people. This is just attention-whoring.

First let me say that the art in this particular set of panels is really effective and well done.

I wanted to say a word or two in the OP's defense. Basically I can relate to having my heart ripped out at the end of the relationship in a similar fashion. The OP relates that it nearly killed them. It had become too painful for them to continue reading the strip on a daily basis, reliving that pain of the day-to-day drip of despair and devastation. It's not a fun read for them anymore. They didn't demand that things be changed back. They did comment that the writing doesn't seem right or complete, and I tend to agree, but a number of people have also commented on that.

I understand not appreciating incessant whining and criticism of a product that is (1) free and (2) well done and (3) not forced on a reader. However, the OP seemed to be commenting on how the strip evoked a difficult emotion for them, for plot reasons that seemed forced.

In an odd way it's a testimony to the evocative power of the medium (and this particular webcomic), as well.

[donoho]

I've always thought of this as Monica's story. We're getting to see her world inside and out.
Over the years the perspective has broadened, allowing insight and depth into the lives of her closest friends and relationships.

In enjoy these stores as a passive observer, taking the things I love, with the things I love less. I'm not a fan of Georgette's manipulation of Monica to get what she believes she needs from her, but the result was some serious introspection focused on what I'd considered an unseen pillar of her "normal" life. If she genuinely feels like she needs to put some distance between herself and Kevin, so be it. Like many, I've been on both sides of this situation and had time to internalize/process both. Maybe she'll realize she made a huge mistake, or that is was best for all involved. I'll wait and see.

All that said, as long as Pablo keeps writing & drawing, I'll keep reading and supporting.

<returns to his quiet spot on the observation deck>

[meisdadoo]

The story around Jet just loses me, the writing there just doesn't feel right or complete. And now it reminds me of this
actually.

I can relate to to that last panel with Kevin though. That kind of pain nearly ended me, so I'm out.

Thanks for having a fun comic overall and maybe I'll check back in a few years to see how this played out.

For me, the Spanish phrase "Lo siento en el alma" comes to mind. Which the Google-netz translates into "I am truly sorry". However this phrase does not mean that. A literal translation would be more like "I feel your pain in my soul" A more correct translation would be "I can see that you are feeling the ultimate emotional pain beyond description. I know this because I too have felt this pain, having been in similar circumstances. I just want you to know that I care and I am here for you if you need me."

For me, that kind of pain was some 30 years ago. So even though the subject matter of the current storyline has got me pondering old scars and ancient regrets, I can deal with it. I suspect Xero Kane's experience was more recent, so I will not judge.

A good comic artist can convey much with a few words and a line drawing. A great artist can draw the reader into the story and feel the emotions of the characters, becoming one with the story until the experience becomes so real that they forget that they are the audience and they become part of the story.

Paul is a great artist and the storylines tend to get "real" as we wind our way through the Wapsi-verse.

I leave you all with the immortal words of Ham Salad: "Relax kid, it's only a movie".

[Dave]

For me, the Spanish phrase "Lo siento en el alma" comes to mind. Which the Google-netz translates into "I am truly sorry". However this phrase does not mean that. A literal translation would be more like "I feel your pain in my soul" A more correct translation would be "I can see that you are feeling the ultimate emotional pain beyond description. I know this because I too have felt this pain, having been in similar circumstances. I just want you to know that I care and I am here for you if you need me."

Spider Robinson wrote a powerful bit about this, in his short story "Antinomy" (which, I agree with him, is a word that very few people recognize, and everybody should).

At last McLaughlin sighed and studied his hands. “When I was a grad student,” he said to them, “I did a hitch on an Amerind reservation in New Mexico. Got friendly with an old man named Wanoma, face like a map of the desert. Grandfather-grandson ­rela­tionship—close in that culture. He let me see his own grandfather’s bones. He taught me how to pray. One night the son of a nephew, a boy he’d had hopes for, got alone-drunk and fell off a motorcycle. Broke his neck. I heard about it and went to see Wanoma that night. We sat under the moon—it was a harvest moon—and watched a fire until it was ashes. Just after the last coal went dark, Wanoma lifted his head and cried out in Zuni. He cried out, ‘Ai-yah, my heart is full of sorrow.’ ”

McLaughlin glanced up at his boss and took a swallow. “You know, it’s impossible for a white man to say those words and not sound silly. Or theatrical. It’s a simple statement of a genuine universal, and there’s no way for a white man to say it. I’ve tried two or three times since. You can’t say it in English.”

Higgins smiled painfully and nodded.

“I cried out too,” McLaughlin went on, “after Wanoma did. The English of it was, ‘Ai-yah, my brother’s heart is full of sorrow. His heart is my heart.’ Happens I haven’t ever tried to say that since, but you can see it sounds hokey too.”

Higgins’s smile became less pained, and his eyes lost some of their squint. “Thanks, Bill.”

[Reani]

Man, I'm one of those people who made an account just to comment on this.

Well, mostly on what's been said in the forums, because it's actually kind of disturbing for a lot of reasons. I know from personal experience that being dumped like Kevin was hurts, and it sucks. But no one owes it to anyone else to be in a relationship with them if they don't want to be. Monica had no obligations to Kevin except to be truthful and faithful. She wasn't always truthful, but she (presumably) broke up with him before going to Jet, or at least talked to him about it. That's all she owes him. She's not being selfish by breaking up with someone she no longer wants to be in a relationship with, regardless of how nice he is. She has every right to be with whomever she wants to be. It's her life and her prerogative.

And this may be the best for Kevin, and not even in a "Monica is an awful <misogynist slur> and she's crazy and irrational" and all the other misogynist crud I've seen certain people on this forum say in the past few days, but in the sense that they're just not compatible for each other. And while this may be sad right now, I'm going to paraphrase the Rolling Stones-- You don't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need.

Also, girls get "friendzoned" all the freaking time. Take it from someone who IS a girl. And it hurts, and that's okay, but we are not entitled to be in a romantic or sexual relationship with anyone.

I feel like a lot of people are forgetting bisexuality exists, too. "Turned her lesbian" Ugh. No. It doesn't work that way. It's possible to be attracted to both genders.

And yeah, I know a lot of people don't like how characters get put on the bus, but as someone else pointed out, until recently, the comic was about Monica and her life, supernatural and not so much, part of life is growing and changing and meeting new people and losing touch with some people you considered close friends. Most people have multiple people who were a huge part in their lives for a long time whom they haven't heard from in years.

And yes, most of the cast is girls. I think it's pretty obvious Paul feels more comfortable writing women. It's not really uncommon for people to feel more comfortable writing one gender or the other, though I think it's more uncommon for it to be the opposite gender. If I were to write a webcomic it'd probably be a lot like WS in that the cast would be 99% ladies with the occasional dude cameo. My best friend on the other hand feels more comfortable writing men, even though she's a girl, which is why she writes slash fanfic.

As a lady (with huge boobs and all that comes with that. I have loved Monica for a long time for that alone. It's nice to see a woman with large breasts be portrayed as intelligent and powerful and not always sexual but sometimes sexual too and the sexual aspects not be condemned.) I have to say Paul writes some of the best female characters I've read, particularly coming from a man. They're complicated and detailed and each of them is different and has a different voice, and that's really nice. They have complicated conflicts and dilemmas and there's not really any good or evil except for things like the Nu Gui and the people who made the GGs. Women have strong friendships and take care of each other and compliment each other and aren't catty or mean, except sometimes they are, and they make mistakes all the time. They're PEOPLE. Too often women are relegated to being the love interests, and I know this is really the case with dudes in WS, but if you want to see a comic with an all dude cast then you have pretty much an infinite pick.

God that turned into an essay. I'm sorry, this is all stuff I've been sitting on for the past few days. (except the compliments to Paul and his writing!)

[Dave]

Man, I'm one of those people who made an account just to comment on this.

Welcome a-board! (pun intended )

Well, mostly on what's been said in the forums, because it's actually kind of disturbing for a lot of reasons. I know from personal experience that being dumped like Kevin was hurts, and it sucks. But no one owes it to anyone else to be in a relationship with them if they don't want to be. Monica had no obligations to Kevin except to be truthful and faithful. She wasn't always truthful, but she (presumably) broke up with him before going to Jet, or at least talked to him about it. That's all she owes him. She's not being selfish by breaking up with someone she no longer wants to be in a relationship with, regardless of how nice he is. She has every right to be with whomever she wants to be. It's her life and her prerogative.

And this may be the best for Kevin, and not even in a "Monica is an awful <misogynist slur> and she's crazy and irrational" and all the other misogynist crud I've seen certain people on this forum say in the past few days, but in the sense that they're just not compatible for each other. And while this may be sad right now, I'm going to paraphrase the Rolling Stones-- You don't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need.

Also, girls get "friendzoned" all the freaking time. Take it from someone who IS a girl. And it hurts, and that's okay, but we are not entitled to be in a romantic or sexual relationship with anyone.

I feel like a lot of people are forgetting bisexuality exists, too. "Turned her lesbian" Ugh. No. It doesn't work that way. It's possible to be attracted to both genders.

Agreed on all points, I think.

I do think people are a bit conflicted about Monica's relationship (however it turns out) with Georgette, because we haven't yet seen how it reconciles with Paul's "word of the author" statement last year to the effect that "Monica is not a lesbian. Period." Granted, he didn't use the word "bisexual" then, so there's an "out" if he's decided to slightly reinterpret what he said and complexify this wonderfully-complex character a bit further. Neither Paul, nor Monica, nor anyone else has to be 100% consistent and un-changing all the time.

I guess that's why I was making a distinction in one of my comments between "emotionally involved" and "sexually involved"... Monica and Georgette are clearly in the former sort of involvement, and might or might not yet have graduated to the latter in any serious way. It will be interesting to learn how their relationship evolves with time.

Also... Kevin is clearly a nice guy, and it sorta hurts to see him in pain. Regardless of what he may or may not "deserve" in a relationship (and your comments about "owing" are well taken), seeing a nice person in a situation of unempowered distress isn't fun.

And yeah, I know a lot of people don't like how characters get put on the bus, but as someone else pointed out, until recently, the comic was about Monica and her life, supernatural and not so much, part of life is growing and changing and meeting new people and losing touch with some people you considered close friends. Most people have multiple people who were a huge part in their lives for a long time whom they haven't heard from in years.

And yes, most of the cast is girls. I think it's pretty obvious Paul feels more comfortable writing women. It's not really uncommon for people to feel more comfortable writing one gender or the other, though I think it's more uncommon for it to be the opposite gender. If I were to write a webcomic it'd probably be a lot like WS in that the cast would be 99% ladies with the occasional dude cameo. My best friend on the other hand feels more comfortable writing men, even though she's a girl, which is why she writes slash fanfic.

As a lady (with huge boobs and all that comes with that. I have loved Monica for a long time for that alone. It's nice to see a woman with large breasts be portrayed as intelligent and powerful and not always sexual but sometimes sexual too and the sexual aspects not be condemned.) I have to say Paul writes some of the best female characters I've read, particularly coming from a man. They're complicated and detailed and each of them is different and has a different voice, and that's really nice. They have complicated conflicts and dilemmas and there's not really any good or evil except for things like the Nu Gui and the people who made the GGs. Women have strong friendships and take care of each other and compliment each other and aren't catty or mean, except sometimes they are, and they make mistakes all the time. They're PEOPLE. Too often women are relegated to being the love interests, and I know this is really the case with dudes in WS, but if you want to see a comic with an all dude cast then you have pretty much an infinite pick.

Yep... and that's one of the things I appreciate about Wapsi Square. It's not "Peanuts" or "Dagwood", with a cast that remains essentially frozen (and individually un-changing) for years. There's lots of growth, and change, and real depth (revealed and as-yet-unrevealed) to the characters. The fact that most of them are differently-gendered than I am is a plus, from my POV, as I get to see the world through "eyes" of a slightly different sort than my own.

I think that's why some of the things that happen, hit people so hard. Paul's such an excellent story-teller that his characters come alive to the reader. And, as with real-world acquaintances, we each deal with the characters' changes and actions according to our own outlooks and personalities. Like any really good story, Wapsi Square is a mirror... sometimes easy to look into, sometimes hard, and sometimes revealing of things we might not not have admitted to previously. Just like what Monica "saw", in fact.

God that turned into an essay. I'm sorry, this is all stuff I've been sitting on for the past few days. (except the compliments to Paul and his writing!)

All good perspectives and reminders - thanks for chiming in! And, as they say, "Don't be a stranger" about speaking up further. The thoughtful exchange of ideas and viewpoints and information is one of the great things about the Wapsi Square fan-base.

[Reani]

Oh well yes, I feel terrible for Kevin, I've been in his place and it hurts and I want to give him a hug! He's a sweetheart and I really hope he stays around, even if I understand that he might not. I'm more responding to an undercurrent of hostility towards Monica that I'm feeling in the forums, rather than any empathy people may be feeling towards Kevin.

I mean I understand Monica did mess up to an extent. If Jet and Tina are really right (and I have Theories about that, mostly about the way Jet affects Tina and kind of projects (?) on her in a way no one else really has. Tina may have been influenced by that. Monica may be influenced by that still. Jet isn't a cackling villain by any means, but she's very troubled and not entirely healthy. I don't personally like the idea of Monica being in a relationship with her, TBH. But I digress) then she was leading Kevin on for a long time and while she doesn't owe it to him to be in a relationship with him, no one deserves to be lied to either. She should have ended this a while ago. She's no saint in this. But it's not because she ended the relationship but because she drew it out when she and Kevin weren't on the same level in terms of what they thought it was. If she did draw it out and Jet isn't subconsciously influencing her.

In the past thread in particular there were a couple "women are so crazy and irrational, she's such a <swear word>" posts that were really frustrating, because men can be just as bad. As a matter of fact, the stoic ideal of masculinity makes a lot of men very dishonest about their feelings, IMO, and difficult to understand, and their idea that we are crazy (or on our periods or whatev) makes them less inclined to listen. Not all of them, but many. We may not always be clear with out feelings, but that's because we don't always entirely understand them ourselves. But many men are like that too. And that's not every woman either. My room mate and I constantly butt heads because I'm very emotional and she's very unemotional and logical, and our third room mate is the mediator who's somewhere in between.

On the other hand, it felt like a lot of people were projecting their own experiences and their feelings towards women who have done similar things in the past on Monica, which is understandable but ironic in people judging people for being too emotional and not practical.

And yeah, I don't think Monica is a lesbian, but she could certainly be bi. And sexuality can be very fluid, and very repressed. Monica has a lot on her plate in terms of bad self esteem and with the stigma around being attracted to your own gender, I can see her shoving that away somewhere like many people do in real life. Just recently one of the writers of Orange is the New Black ended her marriage to a man because she realized she was a lesbian. It happens. And characters can have a life of their own sometimes and spring these things on you.

And also yes there is most certainly a difference between sexual involvement and emotional involvement and they are not necessarily always tied together, and that's another good point.

And yes, it speaks a lot for the quality of the writing that people are so emotionally invested in this! Even if they're angry, the fact that it can make them angry says a lot.

I have an account, and I've been a lurker for a while, I'll probably comment more often. You guys are great.

[Yamara]

RE Bud finding him: If she was looking for him, she went to his home, found he wasn't there, and began poiting around town until she chanced on him.

It is also possible this is a random encounter.

B: Tum te tum--Why! If it isn't Kevin! I did not even see you sitting here. On the bench right beside me. Hello! A chance meeting, what are the odds.

K: ...

B: I am not in any way stalking you, what possible motivation would I have? Ha ha, I mean how would anyone even do that. Just going along generally unaware of the current events in your life so whats up hows it going lay it on me.

K: ..

B: Honestly, I only come down here to skinny-dip in the wintertime. Would you like to w--

K: Not. Helping.


.....


Seriously now, though. They are conducting a debriefing.

As for an immortal / mortal pairing, I'm sure there are ways to make the mortal very long lived, if not immortal. This is also going to be a problem with Monica and Jet, as it was with Monica and Kevin.

Monica is going through her own learning curve; that's a conversation for another day.

Bud can arrange to become mortal again at any time. But she's never been very selfish, and there is still so much to do.

Kevin isn't just dealing with a breakup. Assuming Monica was as forthcoming as it appeared, he's having to face the pervasiveness of an evil that lurks so close and so secretly in so many families and relationship throughout our culture, that when it fully surfaces, in all its unspeakable violence, that he's in

shock;

because the living fact of the brutality, but even more because he now realizes...





...he never so much as noticed.

[as363]

When I saw the ladies talking - say the last few days in particular - it stuck in my mind. Then I came across this today . Just the ebb and flow between them seemed to strike home with this comic . I'll let you be the judge.


http://www.ma3comic.com/strips-ma3/scrub_my_mind_harder

[AnotherFairportfan]

I wanted to say a word or two in the OP's defense. Basically I can relate to having my heart ripped out at the end of the relationship in a similar fashion. The OP relates that it nearly killed them. It had become too painful for them to continue reading the strip on a daily basis, reliving that pain of the day-to-day drip of despair and devastation. It's not a fun read for them anymore. They didn't demand that things be changed back. They did comment that the writing doesn't seem right or complete, and I tend to agree, but a number of people have also commented on that.

I understand not appreciating incessant whining and criticism of a product that is (1) free and (2) well done and (3) not forced on a reader. However, the OP seemed to be commenting on how the strip evoked a difficult emotion for them, for plot reasons that seemed forced.

Which is fine.

Problem is someone registering an account just to say nothing more than what comes across as "I'm gonna pick up my marbles and go home because I don't like what you just did and I'm gonna go tell all the other kids you don't play right and you're a meanyhead. So there!. Nyah!"

[AnotherFairportfan]

They don't have hormones, or biological urges. Obviously the GGG are capable of physical gratification, but the drive would mainly be psychological and emotional.

Not sure. They apparently have "firmware" that replicates whatever their original bodies would have felt, both external and internal.

Which leads to a sort of Turing Test - if the person feeling an emotion or urge or sensation cannot distinguish whether it is "real" or "artificial" - is there a difference?

"A distinction that makes no difference is no difference."

Consider these last two panels (the "he" she mentions is Justin) from the page Sidhekin linked a way upthread - not just the crack about hormones, but Bud's coffee dependence, which, if she were strictly a machine that just looks like a nineteen-year-old, is unlikely, to say the least:

[AnotherFairportfan]

Talk about "not noticing" - i never even wondered how Monica, who (so far as we knew at the time) only had the income from her job at the museum, which - while it might be important and even professionally prestigious - i wouldn't expect to pay enough that she could afford All That Wine...

I mean, just what we can see is more than two hundred bottles.

[AnotherFairportfan]

I did sorta wonder about the $500 coat, but i just figured it was "I saved all year for this coat and I am NOT getting oilon it!"