One Who Could Cry 2014-08-05

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TazManiac
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Re: One Who Could Cry 2014-08-05

Post by TazManiac » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:06 am

Aed wrote:
jwhouk wrote:I suspect "Wapsi" is an old Algonquin word for "twists and turns so complex it makes the head spin." (And, having seen how the Wapsipinicon River meanders through Iowa, I almost wonder if that might be the case...)
How about a special effect to go along with that thought. :lol:
Image

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illiad
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Re: One Who Could Cry 2014-08-05

Post by illiad » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:32 am

meisdadoo wrote:Or as Richard M. Nixon once said "Those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself."

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quote ... j3TRmkP.99

When my Dad turned 18 he joined the Navy to get an education in electronics. He thought that fixing electronics on a ship would be fairly safe and that he would never be called upon to actually hurt or kill anyone. Turned out he was wrong. During the Korean War his ship was providing close fire support which put them in range of the North Koreans. The fire control radar stopped working and he was offered a choice. Either climb the mast while dodging enemy fire and fix the antenna (which would result in several thousand dead Chinese/North Koreans), OR don't climb the mast and let the Chinese/North Koreans wipe out a US Marine Division. He climbed the mast, fixed the radar, and was awarded a medal for his bravery under fire. Unfortunately he never really got over being responsible for so many deaths-- "It's a hell of thing killin man. you take away all he's got, and all he'll ever have. . ." (William Munny--Unforgiven)
this is *always** the problem... it's kill or be killed... and it is not the soldiers fault either, they are quite often forced into the army, otherwise be shot or ostracised... It is the megalomaniac Sergeants who should be blamed..

you have to protect your friends against those that will not only kill everyone, but rip up what they are told to see as 'produce of the devil'... :roll: and DO remember that refugees are the ones escaping theses tyrants for a foreign country that has better ideals...

Warrl
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Re: One Who Could Cry 2014-08-05

Post by Warrl » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:39 pm

meisdadoo wrote:When my Dad turned 18 he joined the Navy to get an education in electronics. He thought that fixing electronics on a ship would be fairly safe and that he would never be called upon to actually hurt or kill anyone. Turned out he was wrong. During the Korean War his ship was providing close fire support which put them in range of the North Koreans. The fire control radar stopped working and he was offered a choice. Either climb the mast while dodging enemy fire and fix the antenna (which would result in several thousand dead Chinese/North Koreans), OR don't climb the mast and let the Chinese/North Koreans wipe out a US Marine Division. He climbed the mast, fixed the radar, and was awarded a medal for his bravery under fire. Unfortunately he never really got over being responsible for so many deaths-- "It's a hell of thing killin man. you take away all he's got, and all he'll ever have. . ." (William Munny--Unforgiven)
I would point out that no matter what he did, many people would have died - he could not change that, so he cannot be responsible for it. He only affected which people died. And a look at the history and conditions of Korea since those events clearly indicate that efforts such as his not only had a huge long-term impact on which people are alive and prosperous, but also significantly increased the number of such people.

As just one representation of the impact of his actions, take a look at this composite satellite photo of the eastern hemisphere at night. See that blob of light to the northwest of the southern tip of Japan? That's South Korea. If the other side had won in Korea, that area would be as unlit as the area just to its north.

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Re: One Who Could Cry 2014-08-05

Post by Atomic » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:22 am

For those who remember the Prince Valiant comic series, the honorable Sir Valiant found himself one day in the clutches of an evil sorcerer (aren't they all?) who challenged him to look into the magic mirror (no, not Erised) and see what his future foretold if he attempted to kill his host. The mirror displayed the downfall of Camelot, plague, and pestilence run amok in a ruined land. Valiant had the presence of mind to ask the mirror, "and what happens if the Wizard dies?" The mirror answered with a different version of misery and war.

Valiant killed the wizard and was freed, along with many others under his rule. His reasoning? We may not be able to change tomorrow, but we can change today. We deal with tomorrow, tomorrow.
Don't let other peoples limitations become your constraints!

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Nimrod
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Re: One Who Could Cry 2014-08-05

Post by Nimrod » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:51 am

Sounds like old Prince V did not ask the correct question. In both instances he was shown what happened with the death of someone. What he should have asked was about maintaining the status quo. He already knew that things would change if the Wizard was dead without asking the mirror so he had gained no new knowledge. It is very possible that by not killing the Wizard the situation would have been better. We can say this because of the three versions two were equally bad - for the third to be worse is actually less likely given the results of killing options already shown.

That whole example shows very limited understanding of consequence and a failure to understand that it is very easy to destroy but very difficult to build - So, even in a flawed system such as the Wizard's it would have been better to change the existing system than plunge the whole into anarchy and attempt to reconstitute a new system. The fortune cookie quality statement at the end is little consolation for all the misery that Prince V knows he inflicted. Given the era in which the comic was written it is not much surprise that killing the tyrant of the week was the thing to do. Too bad that impatient thinking persists for some people into today.

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Atomic
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Re: One Who Could Cry 2014-08-05

Post by Atomic » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:21 am

Bah -- late night too tired posting. Yes, your point is quite valid, and I botched the PV story. The quandry was a life/death question, and my editing was terrible. At any rate, the point of the story was the Third Option. The wizard posed Valiant with a false dilemma, and Valiant used the mirror to find the alternative which while still poor, was at least no worse than the other two options. So, he chose to free himself and his party.

meisdadoo put the point on the issue as being Fix Radar, people die, Don't Fix Radar, Other people die. Choose people. No false dilemma that, given that a Third Option (suddenly impose/negotiate cease-fire, etc) was likely impossible, considering the lack of nearby Organians.
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Mark N
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Re: One Who Could Cry 2014-08-05

Post by Mark N » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:11 pm

DilyV wrote:
Mark N wrote:
DilyV wrote:Nadette may not always tell you what you want to hear... but you can rest assured she'll tell you what you need to hear. How you deal with it is up to you...

this arc isn't tugging at heartstrings... it's yanking at them... HARD.

This is why I keep wondering if the Ursa's are related to Nudge and/or Shelly.
Or Tina!!!
that would mean Bia as well.
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