Wapsi Square Forum

Paul,

Best wishes to you and your lad! What you all have been going through sounds quite hellish. I hope the surgery goes well, and that you're able to help him with the fear he's feeling. I've never been a parent, but after helping my wife get through several difficult surgeries I can imagine somewhat of what you might be feeling.... you have my sincere sympathy.

Please take good care of him and of yourself.

That's a good reason for the filler week. I'm not religious but I'll say something prayer-like for him, Paul.

davids4250 wrote:

TheCollector wrote:Ok, I'm confused. I heard mention by someone that the art piece week is for Pablo to work on the next story. But, um, what about finishing the last story? Didn't Tina want to talk to Monica? Are we skipping that? I don't understand.

I agree. The pinups are nice occasionally, but I vaguely remember there was a storyline at one time. It would be nice to get back to it. A series of drawings that basically just emphasize one character's boobs (whether it is Monica or Atsali) gets tiresome.

Eh, technically Pablo is giving us an updated page 5 days a week for "free." I can't complainif he might not have time with normal life to give us a story strip, or maybe he's fleshing out script ideas and needs more time, or maybe he just drew something cool that he wants to show off.

My only complaint is that he seems to have fallen out of love with Monica and is pining for Atsali.

JK

TlalocW

TlalocW wrote:My only complaint is that he seems to have fallen out of love with Monica and is pining for Atsali.

As long as he isn't pining for the fjords.

shadowinthelight wrote:

TlalocW wrote:My only complaint is that he seems to have fallen out of love with Monica and is pining for Atsali.

As long as he isn't pining for the fjords.

Or the Bjuicks.

shadowinthelight wrote:As long as he isn't pining for the fjords.

Atsali is a Norwegian Blue??

I just want to say how much I have truly loved your work, however, as much as I understand why you are posting the prints of Atsali (because of time and family constraints), I just really wish you had posted posters of the ADULT characters and not the 15 year old... I have to say that kinda' really bothered me.
I am so sorry to hear your son is having such a hard time, sending thoughts of strength to you, your son and your family, I hope all goes well.

WoodGracie wrote:I just want to say how much I have truly loved your work, however, as much as I understand why you are posting the prints of Atsali (because of time and family constraints), I just really wish you had posted posters of the ADULT characters and not the 15 year old... I have to say that kinda' really bothered me.

DO NOTE the website is PG-13, NOT based in 'real life', that has far worse atrocities.. .. also note there is NO NUDITY, and many countries in the world, the 'age of consent' is far lower than 15.. technically an 'adult'.. :/

also, if you happen to be a young teen, with 'too much' what are you meant to do about it???? check the comics from a few weeks back to see what poor Atsali did...

I've also pointed out elsewhere - 15 might be a different number of years of age in siren years.

jwhouk wrote:I've also pointed out elsewhere - 15 might be a different number of years of age in siren years.

We talked about that back when Atsali first appeared - if it is, though, i'd say that "fifteen" is how old Atsali is in "human years" (like "dog years", but going the other way), based on her personality.

WoodGracie wrote:I just want to say how much I have truly loved your work, however, as much as I understand why you are posting the prints of Atsali (because of time and family constraints), I just really wish you had posted posters of the ADULT characters and not the 15 year old... I have to say that kinda' really bothered me.
I am so sorry to hear your son is having such a hard time, sending thoughts of strength to you, your son and your family, I hope all goes well.

What part of the images bothered you? She was not sexualized in any way. Is it because she's 15 years old and has big boobs? Now let me state for the record, I am all too aware that Atsali is 15, I have a niece who is 15, at no time either directly or through innuendo do I sexualize Atsali be it circumstance of in the way she is posed. And yet, what it seems it comes down to is that because she has boobs (yes, girls get the even in 3rd grade, my wife did), but this aspect of her is not to make her a sexualized character. I am tackling the angst and body turmoil that girls and young women go through when puberty and biology gang up on them, what can seem like over night, and add to the already building insecurities they feel about trying to figure out who they are and how they fit in. If Atsali's boobs are bothering you, I think it's more important to figure out why you are bothered by her boobs.

Wapsi wrote: What part of the images bothered you? She was not sexualized in any way. Is it because she's 15 years old and has big boobs? Now let me state for the record, I am all too aware that Atsali is 15, I have a niece who is 15, at no time either directly or through innuendo do I sexualize Atsali be it circumstance of in the way she is posed. And yet, what it seems it comes down to is that because she has boobs (yes, girls get the even in 3rd grade, my wife did), but this aspect of her is not to make her a sexualized character. I am tackling the angst and body turmoil that girls and young women go through when puberty and biology gang up on them, what can seem like over night, and add to the already building insecurities they feel about trying to figure out who they are and how they fit in. If Atsali's boobs are bothering you, I think it's more important to figure out why you are bothered by her boobs.

That is pretty much what I was thinking. If a kid like Atsali, who is so full of angst about her Siren heritage and add to that an instant set of eye magnets to pile on the attention (in her mind all peer attention seems to be bad attention), can relax herself enough to pose for some pics without that angst hitting her in the gut, then she has just hit the empowerment lottery.

As I've said elsewhere: she has an aunt who is more than willing to help her through the rough spots, and - I'm convinced of this now - Amanda's been coaching her.

Having just awoke from an unscheduled nap I realize I've forgotten all the eloquence i was striving for in my reply, suffice to say I cut to the chase:

Paul, there isn't any extra breast topography and a lack of overly demonstrative fan-service, ie camel-toe, <shudder>, (I hate that phrase...) so keep rock'n what you're doing.

And on a side note- maybe, maaaaaybe, somebody can introduce a little classic Parliament/Funkadelic into the mix to further Atsali's musical horizons.

just say'n....

I think Parliament/Funkadelic is before the time of mom - which is likely where she got her metal tastes.

I'm still trying to imagine Kath at an Ozzy concert, or Anthrax, or Iron Maiden...

zachariah wrote:I am glad Paul is sticking to the band names he is. Some of the others would send a very bad message. Like 'Cheap Trick!'. lol.

Though AC/DC has its own connotation.

Yeah, the War on Currents. I'm a fan of the AC part myself.

TazManiac wrote:And on a side note- maybe, maaaaaybe, somebody can introduce a little classic Parliament/Funkadelic into the mix to further Atsali's musical horizons.

just say'n....

Hear, hear! I second that motion...

What part of the images bothered you? She was not sexualized in any way. Is it because she's 15 years old and has big boobs? Now let me state for the record, I am all too aware that Atsali is 15, I have a niece who is 15, at no time either directly or through innuendo do I sexualize Atsali be it circumstance of in the way she is posed. And yet, what it seems it comes down to is that because she has boobs (yes, girls get the even in 3rd grade, my wife did), but this aspect of her is not to make her a sexualized character. I am tackling the angst and body turmoil that girls and young women go through when puberty and biology gang up on them, what can seem like over night, and add to the already building insecurities they feel about trying to figure out who they are and how they fit in. If Atsali's boobs are bothering you, I think it's more important to figure out why you are bothered by her boobs.[/quote]

I have been following Atsali's story line and have begun to care for this character as I have all the others you have shared with us. I have no problem with her boobs. It is because she is 15 (in siren years or not, the story states that she is 15 and that implies she is 15 in human years). I can appreciate what you are doing as far as empowering her by showing her new found sense of comfort/ownership in her body, something I have always admired about your characters and why I enjoy reading your work so much. However, I am feeling protective of your character, as I would hope any adult female, sister and mother would, by looking at it as putting her on display and in so doing unintentionally objectifying her as this culture does, you even allude to it with Katherine's comment that the world is just not ready for her awesome innocence... you can't tell me there aren't people out there who are following your work and appreciating how you draw women on a very different level than where your intent is, even some of the comments on here mention taking a cold shower, or jumping out in the snow...Just sayin'. I meant no offense to you or how you handle your characters, I guess I just don't trust that all that are looking at your work regarding Atsali are looking at it the same way you do. I hope you understand where I am coming from...how do any other women out there or your wife feel about this? am I totally out in left field on this???

For what it's worth, I remember a slightly chubby blond girl in Junior High who was maybe 5 foot nothing and starting to blossom late. I didn't know her very well, but she was pleasant enough in the one class we had together. The next year in High School, she had gained weight in all the right/wrong places. Full chest and bum with almost no waist in between -- from the side her profile was basically a letter S. I don't doubt she had nothing but grief from the various jerks that are always present in any crowd of teenagers. The effect was she basically became a walking cactus -- nothing but prickles in response to anything from someone not in her (small?) circle of friends.

Overcompensation is easy to do when you're constantly under assault, or expect to be. Self image is paramount to effective and useful self esteem, but you need to avoid delusion as well. Experience, and all that.

WoodGracie wrote:I have been following Atsali's story line and have begun to care for this character as I have all the others you have shared with us. I have no problem with her boobs. It is because she is 15 (in siren years or not, the story states that she is 15 and that implies she is 15 in human years). I can appreciate what you are doing as far as empowering her by showing her new found sense of comfort/ownership in her body, something I have always admired about your characters and why I enjoy reading your work so much. However, I am feeling protective of your character, as I would hope any adult female, sister and mother would, by looking at it as putting her on display and in so doing unintentionally objectifying her as this culture does, you even allude to it with Katherine's comment that the world is just not ready for her awesome innocence... you can't tell me there aren't people out there who are following your work and appreciating how you draw women on a very different level than where your intent is, even some of the comments on here mention taking a cold shower, or jumping out in the snow...Just sayin'. I meant no offense to you or how you handle your characters, I guess I just don't trust that all that are looking at your work regarding Atsali are looking at it the same way you do. I hope you understand where I am coming from...how do any other women out there or your wife feel about this? am I totally out in left field on this???

Since you've asked how other women feel about this...and since I'm not only a woman, but a large-breasted woman...

You're not totally out in left field on this (given that other readers have posted similar concerns since Atsali went through her overnight puberty), but you are getting concerned over something that cannot be controlled. He's posted images of Atsali as a young girl and even of Castela, and those "pinups" didn't receive the kind of "this seems inappropriate" feedback that the Atsali pinups are getting now. However, by your arguement, there could be pedophiles enjoying his art in a way other than Paul intended, so maybe he shouldn't put those pictures up either. I think you shouldn't concern yourself with what people might be doing as a result of seeing Paul's art.

I also don't think it would be fair (to Paul or the readers) to say that he can't do pinups of a character that has become so loved so quickly simply because she has large breasts and also happens to be 15. Yes, American culture (and possibly other cultures) tends to breed this idea that "big breasts = sexual being," so it's probably safe to assume that some people "enjoy" these drawings far more than they should given the character's age...but part of what Paul is doing with this storyline and these pinup pieces is trying to combat that unfair assumption. Breasts are just another bodily feature, and shouldn't automatically cause a woman to be judged as "sexual" (or worse, "slutty"). A person can be wholesome and innocent no matter what size her rack happens to be, so why can't that wholesome individual have pinups/portraits posted online? Why does posting that woman or girl's image automatically have to be "suggestive"? Why can't we embrace the idea that "suggestive" has more to do with the body language and less with the body's shape?

Unfortunately, you're right...there will probably always be creeps and deviants perusing images posted online, but we, the rest of society, should take steps to retrain our reactions and thought processes so we can appreciate work like what Paul is sharing. We're not the ones who are getting off looking at a 15 year old, so why should we feel that it's "wrong" to look at an image of her having fun when all we're doing is being amused (at her love of rock 'n roll) and appreciative (of Paul's art)? We shouldn't let the ugly people of the world negatively impact our ability to enjoy life...nor should we allow those people's behavior patterns to lead us to pass similar judgement on people who aren't actually being "inappropriate" (and by that I'm referring both to Paul, who is doing nothing wrong with these pinups, and the girls and women out there who are automatically objectified due to their body shape and clothing choices). It's sweet that you feel protective of her (a testament to Paul's writing abilities), but there's a point where being protective isn't helpful. Hiding a teen away because her body might produce arousal in others isn't the solution.

So yeah...my two cents as a female reader.