You Need To 2013-10-08

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My2Cents
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by My2Cents » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:19 am

jwhouk wrote:
Fairportfan wrote:I am SOOO glad it's Tuesday.
Amen to this. (Though this should have been Friday's cliffhanger...)
Actually this strip would have been last Thursday's. Tomorrows will be the cliffhanger.
While misery loves company, chaos brings along friends.

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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by jwhouk » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:35 am

Waitaminute.

This is reverse psychology, from the master psychologist.

Tina is doing this to snap Monica out of her "I was RAPED" ideal to focus on what she actually DID.

See, if she is going to be angry because she was raped, then she needs to not only "kill" Tar, but she needs to kill those who put her in the position.

I'm calling it if Tina's next suggestion is, "Oh, and you'll have to kill her (Georgette), too, since she's the proof - and her demons saw you do it."
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txmystic
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by txmystic » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:13 am

Yeezus...WTELMF???

Still in the corner.

With chocolate. LOTS of chocolate.

Please don't kill off my beautiful, flawed Tina...

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Yamara
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by Yamara » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:33 am

Uh, Blackwing? That not-preparing and not-warning you did? You're doing it again.

Up to this mark, if Mon is feeling compelled to kill Tina and make it look natural, she can still poit her to that desert she took Bud to shoot rocks in. Deadly dehydration will set in in a few hours, which M can use to get answers. (What? Wormholes are natural. Don't you know anything about food labeling?)


But we're still compassionately distracted by Monica's rape. That might not be what's setting off Tina's need for seppuku.

Dave wrote:Oh, man. :shock: I thought the situation couldn't possibly get worse.

Wrong again, I guess. Tina's "You need to" and "You have to!" sound really ominous.

This feels to me as if she's doing something rather more than making an abject apology here... as if she's desperately begging Monica to kill her, before something very much more terrible than death happens.
Atomic wrote:The angels ponder this, and comment, how few come to us and ask for justice, not mercy.

Tina is ethical, perhaps to a fault. If Monica can withstand the power of Tina's demonic suggestion, perhaps she can visit Tina's covey and deal directly with them. Tar is dead, yes, indirectly by Tina's action, and that alone may be her invocation to suicide.
Not before, Dave. Not indirectly, Atomic. She locked Tar in a cage with a transdimensional lion, leaving it no choice but to die. Tina thought Monica killing it was great, until she learned it could rape, and had a worst fear. That would make it more than a rogue demon. Tar could "hide" from other demons, after all. The aura sorceress finally made a bad call.

To get this reaction from Tina, either the rape 'infected' Monica... or the killing of Tar was a cardinal error.


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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by illiad » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:24 am

My2Cents wrote:
Fairportfan wrote:
jwhouk wrote:This would be a really good time for Phix to show up.
Or Bud.
Or Jin.
Or Katherine...
Or maybe even Lily and Suzi.
No, I think it has to be Phix, because in Tina eyes only Phix's judgments are final. The rest can argue and philosophize, but in the end only a sphinx can grant her absolution or damnation.
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/took-the-phone/

But we are also seeing here more developments in Tina. Think back, demons are basically kibitzer -- they comment and suggest, but in the end the decision is yours, not theirs -- they just do what they do for kicks. Tina is taking ownership of this decision, agonizing over it, and questioning her actions, which may be a big evolutionary step for a demon or a covey of demons.
What about Jet?????

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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by My2Cents » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:50 am

It occurs to me that Tina may be referring to Monica killing the demons that make up her conscious, leaving a mindless body that will eventually die on its own. It would probably be easily mistaken for a massive hemorrhagic stroke.
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by Jay-Em » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:52 am

DilyV wrote:
Timotheus wrote:I do marvel at the lack of the concept of moderation lately in this story line. It seems like they're all Tea Party members.
(Please, no political retorts, for comedic intent only.)
The problem is... Politics aren't funny
Oh?

Well, overhére (Netherlands) it very often ís..... Then again, overhere it is impossible to "shut a government down". That helps. Not paying civil servants, or anyone else with a job is impossible by law.
I guess I am an oddball too here. I find the nutty, pompous self-important people that are scattered throughout our coalitions inherently funny, given the fact that my country is just a tiny spec at the North Sea :) Then again, our Prime Minister tends to go to work on his bicycle, as do some members of the cabinet, so "being a tad nutty" is probably a requirement here... :lol:

Back to the story.

Tina is in a panic. Not because she's afraid of some kind of divine judgement, but simply because she let her best friend be harmed. Being a friend means a whole lot to Tina's demons, and they wanted to do "good" for M as well as Jet, and it went a tad wrong.

Their reaction, "kill me, I deserve it" again, proves that they still are wild creatures, with vèry primal reactions to happenings.

What they stíll do not understand, despite Phix almost spelling it out for them, is that remorse, repentance, all the feelings that are flooding her/them now, makes them/her just thát much more "human".

But, that's just my €0,01

txmystic wrote:Yeezus...WTELMF???

Still in the corner.

With chocolate. LOTS of chocolate.

Please don't kill off my beautiful, flawed Tina...
^that, soooo much that...
but, why 42?
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The Old Wolf
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by The Old Wolf » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:23 am

Has Tina transgressed some awful demon statute by sending Monica into uncharted territory?
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Bud_Fanboi
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by Bud_Fanboi » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:30 am

She knew what Monica could do, knew her powers, and did what she thought was right to possibly help someone out. However in her acts and deeds the person that she considers a friend... I mean does she have any pet nicknames for anyone else besides Sunshine? Got tormented in the process.

This is where most humans say "Hindsight is 20/20". I should have done this, I should have done that. I don't necessarily think her asking to be killed is ritual seppukku. I think it's more a mix of atonement and what she thinks her punishment will be. Demon hurts someone then time stands still and that's all she wrote. Least if Monica kills her she doesn't have to live through that personal hell, and, probably in her mind, Monica get's some closure on the person who is the overall cause of what happened.

At least that's what she may be thinking. I dunno, I'll be over in the corner hoping nothing bad happens to my 2nd favorite character

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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by chicgeek » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:24 am

*buckles seatbelt* It's gonna be a wild ride.

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Boxilar
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by Boxilar » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:37 am

jwhouk wrote:Waitaminute.

This is reverse psychology, from the master psychologist.

Tina is doing this to snap Monica out of her "I was RAPED" ideal to focus on what she actually DID.

See, if she is going to be angry because she was raped, then she needs to not only "kill" Tar, but she needs to kill those who put her in the position.

I'm calling it if Tina's next suggestion is, "Oh, and you'll have to kill her (Georgette), too, since she's the proof - and her demons saw you do it."
I'd buy that if Tina weren't crying. She's genuinely distraught. Something she did caused her closest friend great pain. Tina is suffering a massive case of guilt, and it's an emotion she's not used to feeling. It hurts to know she hurt Monica.
Bud_Fanboi wrote:She knew what Monica could do, knew her powers, and did what she thought was right to possibly help someone out. However in her acts and deeds the person that she considers a friend... I mean does she have any pet nicknames for anyone else besides Sunshine? Got tormented in the process.

This is where most humans say "Hindsight is 20/20". I should have done this, I should have done that. I don't necessarily think her asking to be killed is ritual seppukku. I think it's more a mix of atonement and what she thinks her punishment will be. Demon hurts someone then time stands still and that's all she wrote. Least if Monica kills her she doesn't have to live through that personal hell, and, probably in her mind, Monica get's some closure on the person who is the overall cause of what happened.

At least that's what she may be thinking. I dunno, I'll be over in the corner hoping nothing bad happens to my 2nd favorite character
I think Tina, along with everyone else, keeps failing to take into account that there is a civilized "buffer" between Monica as she usually is and her Jaguar Girl aspect. Her human, civilized side prevented her from immediately lashing out the Tar when it began raping her, and only after she realized what had happened did she cut loose and use her power to eradicate it.

I don't think there is any supernatural punishment in store for Tina. She did not directly harm Monica. But she knows that what she did led to a traumatic moment for M. I don't think her request is reverse psychology or hyperbole. I don't think it's possible to overstate how much Tina cares for Monica, or how much regard she holds her in. Tina tossed Monica into the lion's den, fully believing she would be able to handle what she found there. And she did, but not before being violated. Tina didn't plan that, and I think Tina is so upset, she genuinely wants Monica to kill her.
chicgeek wrote:*buckles seatbelt* It's gonna be a wild ride.
Indeed.

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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by Julie » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:07 am

:shock: :o :shock: :( :cry:

Yeah...so that was essentially the progression of emotions I felt reading today's page. I'd be very surprised if M actually followed through on Tina's demand, but it could happen I guess. If it did, I'm pretty sure I'd be in mourning for a long time... :(
zachariah wrote:Tina really needs to get her head, and her morals, straightened out. This is like a loyal retainer who did something for their lord that failed. The only way to attone for the failure is for the lord to kill them, or allow themselves honorable suicide. While it is a way for the person to prove great loyalty it is really stupid. Just what part of the demon code requires this type of thinking?

Tina has shown signs of this kind of thinking before. She has always worried about hurting others and is always quick to accept the blame for anything that goes wrong. Sadly none of the girls have really paid attention to this and tried to help her deal with it. Shelly explained who she hurt by just tossing the reasons and then forgetting about it. Monica did promise to help Tina delve into her past but has never followed through on it. While Phix has encouraged her to be a single entity she has done nothing else. This attitude is part of the result of this.
I'd be willing to bet that the girls never acted on Tina's tendency to freak out about hurting other because they associated it with her concern for following demonic law. She is not allowed to hurt others or else there will be some serious consequences. Yes, they could have worked a little harder at assuaging some of Tina's freak-outs...calming her and letting her know that bad things happen, and they aren't always her fault...and that intentions do matter...but in the end, Tina's mostly worried about the consequences of breaking the law. We don't know how much of her intent would really matter when it comes down to how demonic law works.

Now...since she's begging to be killed here, I'm inclined to believe that either she's over-reacting with regards to her punishment (likely) or that a worse fate/death is on its way and she figures M will be more humane (plausible, but seems less likely). However, the fact remains that by her actions, M experienced rape and committed murder...so I'd be reluctant to say that Tina's behavior is foolish/stupid/ridiculous. It's just extreme. Based on her understanding of the universe, she's supposed to be punished for the harm she caused...and there are cultures where death is a legitimate punishment for those who instigate rape or murder. Beyond that, she put her friend into that nasty situation. She has got to be feeling so much guilt that she can barely function. We just think her request extreme due to our own understanding of her as a person and the motives (and potential lack of complete information) behind her actions. Extreme or not, I think her behavior is quite understandable.
txmystic wrote:Yeezus...WTELMF???

Still in the corner.

With chocolate. LOTS of chocolate.

Please don't kill off my beautiful, flawed Tina...
Here...have some more chocolate. I think we all could use some right now. :(
"Just open your eyes
And see that life is beautiful."

analyst
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by analyst » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:10 am

"I've got a Jaguar by the tail, it's plain to see,
there won't be much left when she gets through with me."

Tina, invoking the Jaguar.

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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by kingklash » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:12 am

Georgette has equal say in this situation. And before any mention of her current condition leaving her out of the loop, there is the idea that either Tina or Moni (through Tina) can just command her to "Know" her status, with and without Tar. She'll need to, and as part of this whole entanglement, she is the one who has final say on judgment, if any.

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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by illiad » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:13 am

poor Tina.. she keeps wanting people to kill her... and they dont!!! :roll:

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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by TlalocW » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:29 am

TheOtherOne wrote:
DilyV wrote:
Timotheus wrote:I do marvel at the lack of the concept of moderation lately in this story line. It seems like they're all Tea Party members.
(Please, no political retorts, for comedic intent only.)
The problem is... Politics aren't funny
Right. Never Ever bring up fucking politics in this forum again! It's the surest way to kill a good board, and this is a good board. Doesn't matter if it's in jest, it will only upset people needlessly and some will feel insulted. Nothing good will come from it. It will either lead to the board being shut down, or people being banned. Not to mention good people simply leaving it because they hate seeing such posts (from either side). I've seen all three occur and have left otherwise good boards to get away from it. The best thing to do is stamp it out before it even has a chance to get started.
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by Dave » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:58 am

illiad wrote:poor Tina.. she keeps wanting people to kill her... and they dont!!! :roll:
Well, entirely aside from the fact that many of those people like and care about Tina, I can see a couple of reasons:
  • People are very leery of the possibility of accidentally releasing a covey of free-range demons. No telling what they'd do if they were un-confined... the no-harm geas which binds Tina might not apply thereafter.
  • The community would lose the best local coffee-and-pastries watering hole it has ever had, and the only barista who can empathetically sense your chosen "prescription" before you even walk in the door. The resulting caffeine deprivation could hit people pretty hard...
So, it's a bit like what the Yaphet Kotto character said about the alien... "It's got a great defense system - you don't dare kill it!" :D

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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by DilyV » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:14 am

Timotheus wrote:
Tina is in a panic. Not because she's afraid of some kind of divine judgement, but simply because she let her best friend be harmed. Being a friend means a whole lot to Tina's demons, and they wanted to do "good" for M as well as Jet, and it went a tad wrong.

Their reaction, "kill me, I deserve it" again, proves that they still are wild creatures, with vèry primal reactions to happenings.

What they stíll do not understand, despite Phix almost spelling it out for them, is that remorse, repentance, all the feelings that are flooding her/them now, makes them/her just thát much more "human".

But, that's just my €0,01
I'm not sure Tina can be even remotely called human in her current state but her demons have transcended their primal nature to learn compassion and dare I say it... love. I think this is the second time we've seen Tina cry... the first being right after she got de-nudged... and Monica was there then, too. Hopefully seeing Tina cry triggers Monica's motherly instinct and another hug fest will ensue. The rats running the ship need comforting at the moment but more importantly a pause is needed in which a serious conversation can begin. Right now things are much too reactionary for Monica to act. Either they need to pause and pull back and calmly talk over what happened or Jet needs to wake and say thank you for dispensing with the ugly parasite that had taken over her inner demons. Either way, I think this needs to be resolved quickly before Phix enters the scene... Oh. My. God... What if it's not Phix that shows? What if it's Shelly, who just happens to be Monica's other sphinx friend, and the one more likely to go off half cocked for Tina hurting Monica?
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by Stormsong » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:43 am

I am thinking that Tina is testing Monica. Nudging her, if you will, to realize that what she did to Tar needed to be done. Monica hurt herself with the torturing of Tar, but Tar was cancerous and justice needed to be done swiftly to terminate its reign of terror. Tina on the other hand, has made an innocent mistake which inadvertently caused her friend to be raped. I'm hoping that when Monica cannot bring herself to harm Tina, she will realize that she herself is truly an ok person and the self-loathing is, for the most part, unwarranted. She'll remember Tar as a lesson in self-control when meting out justice to errant demons and will go forward with self-confidence, better able to act swiftly and justly the next time she needs to put down a truly evil demon (Tar) but withhold her wrath if warranted (Tina).
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Re: You Need To 2013-10-08

Post by Dave » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:46 am

DilyV wrote: I'm not sure Tina can be even remotely called human in her current state but her demons have transcended their primal nature to learn compassion and dare I say it... love. I think this is the second time we've seen Tina cry... the first being right after she got de-nudged... and Monica was there then, too.
A very good point.

Tina's reaction here shows how she's come, from just being a group of feral "rats" tugging on the strings of an un-dead body. If she were still just a pack of wild animals, Monica's distress probably wouldn't have bothered her very much if at all... she would simply have shrugged it off.

Who knows... Phix might even approve... she's complemented Tina for struggling with an ethical dilemma in a human fashion, and encouraging her to continue. Phix might say that Tina's tearful reaction to her error is just the next step in such a journey towards true individuality... and, being a sphinx, Phix might very well consider Monica's actions in covey-space to be perfectly proper and appropriate, and her traumatic rape to be simply an unfortunate happenstance that needed to be revenged through violence.

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