A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

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Timotheus
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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by Timotheus » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:00 pm

In Shinto and Buddhist theology the soul is not one element but rather several elements that exist in a state of equilibrium. Some are unique to an individual, others are reused in life after life, and some are part of a common life source with no individuality. (hence reincarnation AND individual merit)

This is what makes interpreting oriental ghost stories so difficult some times. Part of the person who's died's soul has moved on to the realm of the dead, part has remained behind for revenge, part has remained attached to the vengeful part but with no restraints now and other parts that did have restraint have left for new cycles. This does however explain the common theme of someone with enough emotional power recalling the positive elements of the ghost's soul from the beyond so that it is restored to the kind person it once was and then leaving together.

Interestingly, this interpretation of the soul fits in rather well with the Western concepts of Ego, Superego, Id, ect. It also goes along with Paul's version of humans having their own soul and a covey of immortal demon advisors plus a non-sentient driving force (As per Tina's break down, her body is "Alive" as we would define it, but the "rats are running the "ship").
Last edited by Timotheus on Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by jwhouk » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:00 pm

And that is why Jin made sure Monica did not die in distress and allow the "rats to run the ship".

Boy, that puts a big bow on it, doesn't it?
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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by Yamara » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:32 pm

Timotheus wrote:In Shinto and Buddhist theology the soul is not one element but rather several elements that exist in a state of equilibrium. Some are unique to an individual, others are reused in life after life, and some are part of a common life source with no individuality. (hence reincarnation AND individual merit)

This is what makes interpreting oriental ghost stories so difficult some times. Part of the person who's died's soul has moved on the the realm of the dead, part has remained behind for revenge, part has remained attached to the vengeful part but with no restraints now and other parts that did have restraint have left for new cycles. This does however explain the common theme of someone with enough emotional power recalling the positive elements of the ghost's soul from the beyond so that it is restored to the kind person it once was and then leaving together.

Interestingly, this interpretation of the soul fits in rather well with the Western concepts of Ego, Superego, Id, ect. It also goes along with Paul's version of humans having their own soul and a covey of immortal demon advisors plus a non-sentient driving force (As per Tina's break down, her body is "Alive" as we would define it, but the "rats are running the "ship").

And don't you dare mention Amenhotep IV!
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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by Aed » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:53 am

Yamara wrote:And don't you dare mention Amenhotep IV!
So do we now have two names that we dare not utter?

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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by ShirouZhiwu » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:13 am

And now we have the last piece to the puzzle to understand the problem. A vengeful spirit is taking vengeance on all those who killed her and created golems. The spirit is some 5,000 years old and has the strategy thing down like she invented it. Of course the problem with vengeance is that it's not picky about targets. Killing to eliminate a public safety threat is not it's objective or priority. It results in a lot of collateral damage due to carpet bombing instead of laser guided bombing. Time to invalidate a contract.

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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by DilyV » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:26 am

I've been re-reading a lot of the earlier strips since this one posted Friday Morning, trying to get an understanding of what's going on and to be honest, confusion corner is looking real good right about now.

I too fell into the misunderstanding of what Brandi said... I hypothesized a while back in relation to the deal Brandi had made the deal with the demons; that SDO was the manifestation of one (or more) demon(s) taking over the ship, blocking good brandi from knowledge of what they were doing in her body. This new wrinkle kind of throws things out the window. Brandi may have thought she was dealing with demons, but ghosts and demons are two very different things. Is it possible that she thought this vengeful ghost was a demon, no knowing it was a ghost? Demons may be evil, but as most accounts and stories depict them, they generally do have a code of conduct... and unless under some compulsion spell, act only in their own best interest.

Not so with a ghost bent on vengeance. There are no rules or codes except for wreaking their vengeance on their oppressors, regardless of who gets in the way. The questions I have are, Did Brandi know when she made this 'deal' that she would be giving the power of a leviathan to a vengeful spirit and did the vengeful spirit know the power Brandi wielded when she made the deal? I would think that the answers to those two questions would be very important as to how far the spirit would have gone to persuade Brandi into taking the deal.

Now that I've asked those two questions, it brings up another...

What power does this ghost have to hold up it's end of the bargain? That being to allow Brandi to set her will in motion without (good) Brandi knowing what she's done. For example, how is good Brandi going to feel when she finds out that there is a good chance that Bud, Kath and Atsali were possibly vaporized because of something her alter ego set into motion?

Curiouser and curiouser.
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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by RunningBull » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:05 pm

DilyV wrote:... did the vengeful spirit know the power Brandi wielded when she made the deal?
I was in the understanding that Brandi made her "deal" when she was still alive, and before she became part of the Chimera. If that was the case then she had no power when she made the deal. Of course I could be wrong, I'm consistently wrong anymore but hey,
at least I'm consistent!
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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by Timotheus » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:13 pm

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/empty-space/

For everyone's general reference, I believe this is where Brandi says all that is known of her deal.
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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by Dragon Hostler » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:48 pm

by Sidhekin » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:40 am
Dragon Hostler wrote:
Clay Dybbuk?

... you were thinking of Agatha Clay's mother, right?

(Yes, I see your signature.)
Ha! I wasn't being that clever when I popped off that post.
Yes, that is where I learned the word Dybbuk, but I wasn't thinking of "The Other" at the time, just a possessed Golem, and since Golem and Dybbuk are both Jewish folklore...

Nu Gui, New Guy, Nui Gui, Rapanui, New Guinea Raptors, Nash Rambler...More French Press Tina, por favor.
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Re: A Nü Gui Deal 2013-06-14

Post by jwhouk » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:02 pm

From what I understand, it came down like this:

Brandi was a day care worker at a Lanthian nursery. The priests, who were hell-bent on making a Chimera Super-weapon, needed (presumably) an "innocent" to be part of it. That was supposed to be Brandi - or, it may very well have been the very girl Brandi was trying to protect. The priests attacked, and ended up killing the little girl - a motif that we've seen repeatedly in Pablo's works, from Shelly's nightmares on through Bud's nightmare (though that little girl could be Bia), and through even Jin, who saw the little girl as a "hallucination" on the frozen lake.

That little girl's "ghost" is what really screwed up the Chimera - the "ghost in the machine", if you will. Its vengeance took things out on its creators, and nearly wrecked the planet - but she was reined in. By whom? I'd almost be willing to bet it was Brandi's personality in the machine.

When those that were left managed to separate the three girls, this "ghost" - which no one noticed was still around - took "possession" of Brandi. By that time, it had matured, and become a full vengeful spirit. It was after this that the demon world took notice - and realized the deal that this "Nu Gui" had made with Brandi. That may have been the reason why they did their best to "screw up" the Calendar Machine - they were scared of her, and didn't want any of her plans to succeed.

That brings into question who exactly the "her" was that had to be broken when Doubt addressed all the demons prior to M getting "shivved". I wonder if that was our "Nu Gui" she was referencing - or, perhaps, the demon that had been assigned to the ghost. Because they had such difficulty separating Jin, Brandi and Bud, the ghost's "demon" may have gotten reassigned to Jin - and she took on her spirit of vengeance.

Our ghost girl may have been the one, under the guise of "Senior Director Oduya", who set everything else into motion to this point. And now, the final drop in the bucket is the destruction of the Etheitians. (Had to look it up how Pablo spelled it.). But Brandi may have realized what exactly that meant - Katherine and Lily would die. And Brandi didn't want that - for whatever reason (possibly three more moves ahead?) - and sent Bud to "protect" them.

And that, kids, is where we are right now. I think. Pablo could go and drop another storyline transmission on Monday and make all my observations moot.

P.S. - If it is a ghost, that might be the reason why Amanda was allowed to be given the clue-in by Monica...
"Character is what you are in the dark." - D.L. Moody
"You should never run from the voices in your head. That's how you give them power." - Jin

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