Hoppy beer, without the hops

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Dave
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Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by Dave » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:34 pm

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 162259.htm

They do use some hops (boiled with the wort) to provide the bittering... but the aromatic hoppy flavors come from the genetically-modified yeast.

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DinkyInky
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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by DinkyInky » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:30 pm

Now if they could make wheat free beer that doesn't taste wheat free for my friends...
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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by GlytchMeister » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:51 pm

DinkyInky wrote:Now if they could make wheat free beer that doesn't taste wheat free for my friends...
I think that’s called potato vodka. :P
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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by DinkyInky » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:13 pm

GlytchMeister wrote:
DinkyInky wrote:Now if they could make wheat free beer that doesn't taste wheat free for my friends...
I think that’s called potato vodka. :P
Beer, not hard liquor.
Yanno how some people have Angels/Devils for a conscience? I have a Dark Elf ShadowKnight and a Half Elf Ranger for mine. The really bad part is when they agree on something.

Aphyon chu kissa whol l'jaed.
--Safyr Drathmir

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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by Typeminer » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:50 pm

I'd expect lots of microbrews to be wheat free. Certainly many German and Bohemian styles should be.

But there is gluten in barley, if that's the issue.
Saccharomyces cerevisiae is the linchpin of civilization.

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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by TazManiac » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:32 pm

I'm leery of modifying the flavour with man-tailored yeast strains. I (now) understand that a Hop Crop is water intensive, but still...

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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by Catawampus » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:19 pm

Typeminer wrote:I'd expect lots of microbrews to be wheat free. Certainly many German and Bohemian styles should be.

But there is gluten in barley, if that's the issue.
Apparently some Corona and Carlsberg beers are very low gluten, enough that people with all but the worst cases of gluten intolerance can drink some without trouble. And anything brewed from something such as rice or corn ought to be gluten-free; I've even seen some buckwheat beer around here, though I haven't tasted any because I don't like beer in general.

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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by DinkyInky » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:11 pm

Catawampus wrote:
Typeminer wrote:I'd expect lots of microbrews to be wheat free. Certainly many German and Bohemian styles should be.

But there is gluten in barley, if that's the issue.
Apparently some Corona and Carlsberg beers are very low gluten, enough that people with all but the worst cases of gluten intolerance can drink some without trouble. And anything brewed from something such as rice or corn ought to be gluten-free; I've even seen some buckwheat beer around here, though I haven't tasted any because I don't like beer in general.
Celiac sufferers cannot have buckwheat either. Sul and Soju are pretty far off from beer though.
Yanno how some people have Angels/Devils for a conscience? I have a Dark Elf ShadowKnight and a Half Elf Ranger for mine. The really bad part is when they agree on something.

Aphyon chu kissa whol l'jaed.
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Dave
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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by Dave » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:15 pm

DinkyInky wrote:Celiac sufferers cannot have buckwheat either.
Cite? As I understand it (and from a bit of quick Google-fu), buckwheat is entirely gluten-free and is said to be safe for celiac sufferers. It's not even a grain - it's the seed of a plant in the rhubarb family and is botanically a long way from being a grass.

Now, a lot of products that are advertised as buckwheat aren't pure buckwheat; for example, "buckwheat" pancakes are often made from a mixture of buckwheat flour and wheat flour. The same is true of many soba noodles, I believe. No good for those with gluten sensitivities.

Apparently, it is possible to make a beer out of just buckwheat and other gluten-free seeds (e.g. millet and sorghum) and without wheat, barley, or rye. Buckwheat does contain amylase enzymes and apparently will make a ferment-worthy mash all by itself.

I have no idea how it tastes.

https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/h ... buckwheat/
https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/o ... free-beer/

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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by DinkyInky » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:05 am

Dave wrote:
DinkyInky wrote:Celiac sufferers cannot have buckwheat either.
Cite? As I understand it (and from a bit of quick Google-fu), buckwheat is entirely gluten-free and is said to be safe for celiac sufferers. It's not even a grain - it's the seed of a plant in the rhubarb family and is botanically a long way from being a grass.

Now, a lot of products that are advertised as buckwheat aren't pure buckwheat; for example, "buckwheat" pancakes are often made from a mixture of buckwheat flour and wheat flour. The same is true of many soba noodles, I believe. No good for those with gluten sensitivities.

Apparently, it is possible to make a beer out of just buckwheat and other gluten-free seeds (e.g. millet and sorghum) and without wheat, barley, or rye. Buckwheat does contain amylase enzymes and apparently will make a ferment-worthy mash all by itself.

I have no idea how it tastes.

https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/h ... buckwheat/
https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/o ... free-beer/
Finding a source without cross-contamination has proved impossible for them(one has been searching for 13 years), so they've pretty much added it to the list of not allowed foods.
Yanno how some people have Angels/Devils for a conscience? I have a Dark Elf ShadowKnight and a Half Elf Ranger for mine. The really bad part is when they agree on something.

Aphyon chu kissa whol l'jaed.
--Safyr Drathmir

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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by Dave » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:28 pm

DinkyInky wrote:
Dave wrote:
DinkyInky wrote:Celiac sufferers cannot have buckwheat either.
Cite? As I understand it...
Finding a source without cross-contamination has proved impossible for them(one has been searching for 13 years), so they've pretty much added it to the list of not allowed foods.
Gotcha. Yeah, with that level of allergic sensitivity, even a trace of contamination can be a really serious issue, and the commercial brewers almost certainly can't be bothered to maintain that level of segregation in their facilities. Ditto with a lot of commercial farmers, I'd guess.

I suppose one might be able to home-brew a buckwheat beer with adequate lack-of-grains, if you were able to find a reliable supplier of buckwheat that hadn't been processed in a "shared facility". That probably would mean going out to the farm yourself and collecting directly during harvest. :( Not in the cards for the average Joe or Jane. Ditto with raising it yourself - possible, if you're in a cool-enough climate, but not trivial. I've heard of "subsistence farming"... maybe "subsistence brewing" needs to become a thing?

or... hmmm... https://www.ployes.com/buckwheat/buckwh ... ation.html might be worth a look. They say they raise and mill only buckwheat, and make a point of the gluten-free and celiac-disease issues. (Since they also sell a buckwheat-and-whole-wheat premix, it'd be important to ask where this mix is put together so that it doesn't cross-contaminate the pure buckwheat). They do sell 100% buckwheat flour; maybe they'd also sell unmilled buckwheat for mashing?

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Re: Hoppy beer, without the hops

Post by Bookworm » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:36 pm

Just to point out, as someone with a lot of food allergies (I'm allergic to eating and breathing), I can say that _most_ gluten sufferers are not gluten sensitive. They're allergic to wheat. _I_ was allergic to wheat for a while when I was younger. Made foods really interesting, and that was in the 70's, when most people still cooked their own food. We had a lot of cornbread.

I can't find the references right now, but what I remember reading is that there aren't really many ways to test someone for gluten sensitivity. People just hear about it, and wham, they become the 'self-diagnosed'. "I got rid of gluten in my diet and I'm feeling so much better!". Um... Did you get tested? "No, I just removed all gluten, and I'm doing great now."

Needless to say, that's a terrible way to diagnose yourself, but hey, if you have that kind of money, you can throw gluten out. A better way to test is to just stop eating wheat products. You can still make bread with gluten, as spelt flour is much more obtainable now. (Spelt is part of the wheat family, sort of, but not really that close of a relative. The FDA did a stupid, and classified spelt as wheat just because it contains gluten. That's like claiming that Deadly Nightshade and Tomatoes have to be classified as the same plant, just because they're related) Anyway - spelt has less gluten, so you can't knead it as much, but it's an older form of grain that was commonly used up through mechanization. Turns out that the kernel of wheat (amaranth?) is much easier to separate mechanically - spelt is much thicker.

The other thing? People that are 'gluten sensitive' may have a problem similar to me. I have issues with fermentation byproducts. I can't drink beer, wine, champagne, etc. The one thing in common with the ones that I've had really bad reactions with? (needless to say, I just avoid alcohol because I hate having headaches and puking from a sip of anything) They all are fermented with yeasts and bacteria. If you think you have that problem, then you switch to unleavened breads, and see if that helps at all.

I've also had nasty reactions to fungus, which may be related, as yeast is a fungus.

If you have celiac disease, properly diagnosed, then you need to avoid spelt as well as wheat.

For those who just want a drink? Try rum, saki, or Polish vodka (potato vodka) (Turns out most Russian vodka is wheat). Otherwise, try something like Gin, which is double or triple distilled, which means it won't have much, if any, of the original fermentation products. (well, other than the essence of juniper berries)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

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