Pair-aDate

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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby Just Old Al » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:05 am

Wrong characterization, inattention to details, not consulting the owner of a character when using it. Not right...at all...especially the last.

Don't do that, Joe.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby lake_wrangler » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:32 am

Just Old Al wrote:Wrong characterization, inattention to details, not consulting the owner of a character when using it. Not right...at all...especially the last.

Don't do that, Joe.
The way I read it, he didn't so much USE a character, as much as MENTION a character, in the context of a "How does X know Y? By way of knowing Z." type of inquiry. So it's not a question of using a character, so much as a character being part of the list of the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon... I mean, 6 degrees of separation...

It is unfortunate that he got Sterling's career wrong, but other than that, I don't see it as the end of the world. He merely referenced characters and events that had already been established, without actually using them further. Had he tried to phone Sterling afterwards, and make her talk, THAT would certainly have been using the character, and apparently without permission. Referencing past events, already established in canon, if it fills out the story a little, I see no harm in that.

And I too would have missed the fact that it was Cinnamon, not Cindy, who is in Law School. You people have written so much, over the years, that it's hard to keep it all straight. That story was entertaining, with enough backhistory hooks to tie in nicely to the rest of Canon. Minor details like missing out who went to Law School, or what career some character has, should not be the end of the world. In fact, it seems to me that this is the kind of stuff that could have been discussed ahead of time, had lines of communication been open somewhere.

Maybe you guys (i.e. you writers) should have a separate forum, where ideas can be bounced off each other, and exactitude of details can be verified ahead of time, so that by the time a story is published in this forum, the nitpicky stuff has already been taken care of... I can't even begin to imagine how beneficial such a forum would be, with communication lines open between all the authors, in order to achieve even better stories...
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby chicgeek » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:14 am

LW, we have a pm system. It's easy enough to message someone to ask, 'can I use so and so? here's the bit I wrote referencing them, does it look all right?'
When the Steampunk story thread was active, the participants messaged each other all the time, and the posts were better for it. I wrote a bit with Al's character interacting with mine, he let me know nicely it wasn't right, changes were made, both sides were happy.
When there's a shared universe with several writers-yes, writing is more difficult. But the payoff makes it all worth it. I love the different viewpoints and styles!
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby DinkyInky » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:52 pm

Jwhouk, he doesn't know any of Fergus' Clan.

Wrong part of the Highlands, and if pressed for a reason to know Fergus at all, I suppose perhaps maaaaybe casually meeting over trying to save a grove of dying trees, but that's stretching it.
Yanno how some people have Angels/Devils for a conscience? I have a Dark Elf ShadowKnight and a Half Elf Ranger for mine. The really bad part is when they agree on something.

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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby Just Old Al » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:30 pm

Maybe you guys (i.e. you writers) should have a separate forum, where ideas can be bounced off each other, and exactitude of details can be verified ahead of time, so that by the time a story is published in this forum, the nitpicky stuff has already been taken care of... I can't even begin to imagine how beneficial such a forum would be, with communication lines open between all the authors, in order to achieve even better stories...


The PM system works, and I use it on a regular basis when consulting with others. CG and I are collaborating on a piece now, as a matter of fact.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby Warrl » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:31 pm

lake_wrangler wrote:And I too would have missed the fact that it was Cinnamon, not Cindy, who is in Law School.

They are the same character. Joe's mistake was to put her in medical school; she's in law school. Dawn/Pauline (my character) is in medical school.

Maybe you guys (i.e. you writers) should have a separate forum, where ideas can be bounced off each other, and exactitude of details can be verified ahead of time, so that by the time a story is published in this forum, the nitpicky stuff has already been taken care of...

We do. Joe was on it. For various reasons, he got disinvited.

(Yes it's active. There are at least four stories under development there, that there've been no sign of so far on this forum. And I think I'm gonna compare the list of threads there and here - I suspect there are stories completed or near-completion that could readily be copied over.)
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby Just Old Al » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:43 pm

Warrl wrote:(Yes it's active. There are at least four stories under development there, that there've been no sign of so far on this forum. And I think I'm gonna compare the list of threads there and here - I suspect there are stories completed or near-completion that could readily be copied over.)


At least one is in the throes of completion, with more than one in development. You're right - we need to move that along.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby lake_wrangler » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:55 pm

Warrl wrote:
Maybe you guys (i.e. you writers) should have a separate forum, where ideas can be bounced off each other, and exactitude of details can be verified ahead of time, so that by the time a story is published in this forum, the nitpicky stuff has already been taken care of...

We do. Joe was on it. For various reasons, he got disinvited.
I find it hard to believe that Joe could do anything horrible enough to get kicked out of a forum made for bouncing ideas off each other and for proofreading... I've never read any material of his that could in any way be considered offensive, nor do I believe him capable of doing so...

Sure, given sufficient numbers of people, one finds that they will not all think the same, nor always want to go in the same direction, but enough to get kicked out of a writing forum? Even if he did want to go in a direction that most of the others did not (I know nothing, I am speaking hypothetically), as long as he did not involve other people's characters directly on those occasions, could he not still benefit from the proofreading of the forum? And when he does write something more in line with the general consensus, could he not still benefit from others nitpicking his writings, to make for a better story overall?

After years of talking with people, it has been my experience that people who divorce over "irreconcilable differences" do not, in fact have such irreconcilable differences, so much as that they no longer want to bother working through those differences, for whatever reasons. Many a couple would be saved, if they only said "divorce is not an option, we'll work through this!"

(In other words, was disinviting Joe from your forum truly warranted? Was there really no other way to resolve your differences?)
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby Warrl » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:13 pm

A cooperative forum for bouncing ideas off each other, keeping things in canon, and making sure that one person's original characters aren't mistreated in another character's writing, requires that people actually cooperate, listen, and respect each other's characters... that's all I'll say.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby ShneekeyTheLost » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:07 pm

lake_wrangler wrote:I find it hard to believe that Joe could do anything horrible enough to get kicked out of a forum made for bouncing ideas off each other and for proofreading... I've never read any material of his that could in any way be considered offensive, nor do I believe him capable of doing so...

Sure, given sufficient numbers of people, one finds that they will not all think the same, nor always want to go in the same direction, but enough to get kicked out of a writing forum? Even if he did want to go in a direction that most of the others did not (I know nothing, I am speaking hypothetically), as long as he did not involve other people's characters directly on those occasions, could he not still benefit from the proofreading of the forum? And when he does write something more in line with the general consensus, could he not still benefit from others nitpicking his writings, to make for a better story overall?

After years of talking with people, it has been my experience that people who divorce over "irreconcilable differences" do not, in fact have such irreconcilable differences, so much as that they no longer want to bother working through those differences, for whatever reasons. Many a couple would be saved, if they only said "divorce is not an option, we'll work through this!"

(In other words, was disinviting Joe from your forum truly warranted? Was there really no other way to resolve your differences?)

I am not in the habit of airing dirty laundry in public, or adding insult to injury, as such there is a limit to which I will discuss this topic.

What I will say is this: The process by which that decision was made came in multiple infractions, each time a degree of punishment was levied by a unanimous decision of the founding members. Not once, many times. The rules were explicitly laid out, and he (and everyone else) agreed to them explicitly beforehand. He knew the rules, he disregarded them. He has no one to blame but himself.

I would politely ask that we let this topic drop, as it is doing no one any good.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby jwhouk » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:28 pm

Especially me, when all I'm trying to do is tell a story.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby Warrl » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:27 pm

Joe, tell your stories with your characters in your world. No problem.

Tell your stories with other people's characters and/or in a shared world... it gets more complicated. You don't own the world outright, and you don't own some of the characters at all. You need to take the other owners into account and respect their ownership.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby jwhouk » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:43 pm

Cavin's the only character I basically own "outright." I ran with Dusty and even with Ari.

I'm sorry I tried to put the key in the wrong lock with Dinky's character.

Unfortunately, I don't know if apologies will ever be accepted.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby DinkyInky » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:26 am

jwhouk wrote:Cavin's the only character I basically own "outright." I ran with Dusty and even with Ari.

I'm sorry I tried to put the key in the wrong lock with Dinky's character.

Unfortunately, I don't know if apologies will ever be accepted.
Jwhouk, all you ever need to do is ask me if you could use them, and would they fit. You KNOW I'd help you make it fit, or help you set it up.
The only reason I was so irritated was you didn't ask me...you never ask me. This could have been avoided completely without a peep out here had you done so.
Ask any of the usual suspects how often I say no when they don't fit the narrative.
I've told everyone here no at least a dozen times when they won't work. The difference is, they have all privately asked me first before hitting publish.

If you can remember to do this, I have ZERO issues, and we can start from scratch, as always. Now go get some rest and let's start fresh in the morning. PM me when you need to.
Yanno how some people have Angels/Devils for a conscience? I have a Dark Elf ShadowKnight and a Half Elf Ranger for mine. The really bad part is when they agree on something.

Aphyon chu kissa whol l'jaed.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby jwhouk » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:58 am

Will do. I'm on my tablet and I hate the keyboard layout on it.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby DinkyInky » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:20 am

jwhouk wrote:Will do. I'm on my tablet and I hate the keyboard layout on it.

Ditto, but I misplaced my Bluetooth keyboard, and without a charge, it cannot tell me where it is, so I'm dealing without until I can declutter.

Sent another PM.
Yanno how some people have Angels/Devils for a conscience? I have a Dark Elf ShadowKnight and a Half Elf Ranger for mine. The really bad part is when they agree on something.

Aphyon chu kissa whol l'jaed.
--Safyr Drathmir
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby Warrl » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:59 am

jwhouk wrote:Cavin's the only character I basically own "outright."


Well, there's Joe Houk and his wife, and I think a neighbor or two who appeared occasionally.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby jwhouk » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:24 pm

Well, yeah, obviously.

Anyways - at this time I'm not going to expand on what happened next. I'll leave that to the imagination of the reader; it's a lot more fun that way.

Though I'll admit I wanted to have Pablo wake up in the middle of the night, wondering what that high-pitched screeching was...

EDIT: And yes, this is being cleared up (hopefully) in PM.
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby jwhouk » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:37 pm

And now, back to our story...

---

Monica had been dispatched by Georgette – or, at least, by Guidance – to get some coffee from Tina's. It was rather late in the morning on a Saturday – so much for that antiquing crawl they'd planned – but she suspected Tina's shop wouldn't be that busy. And, as a result, she didn't get all dressed up for the trip there.

She was right; a few regulars were there, but there was no wait at the counter.

"Sunshine!" Tina greeted her. "The usual? Oh, and a coffee for Miss Jet, too, it looks like?" Monica nodded and smiled.

"Trying to get motivated for some antique hunting today," she explained. "Jet's still back in bed. We were going to check out the flea market at the State Fairgrounds for some possible diamonds-in-the-rough."

"Never understood why they call it a flea market," Tina mused. "They don't sell fleas there, and I don't think anyone would want to buy them."

Monica could only laugh at that.

The bell on the door indicating a customer was entering rang, and the familiar face of Katherine wandered in – with a not-so-familiar face in tow.

"Oh, hey, Kath! Long time no see!" She waved at her. "I don't think I've met your friend?"

"Bryn Andersen," was the reply from the blonde woman with freckles and lidded eyes. "I think we may have spoken briefly a few years ago, when you began mentoring Calista?"

A spark of recognition came to Monica.

"Oh, that's right – you're the principal at Gryphon!" She shook her hand in greeting. "Katherine finally getting you turned on to Tina's wonderful blends of coffee and tea?"

"I've been here a few times already, for certain," she said while Kath perused the pastry case. "So many of the teachers at Gryphon come here, we're thinking of trying to get a bulk discount." That got a giggle from the both of them.

Tina peered from around the corner of the espresso machine. "Oh, hi, Miss Satyr lady! I'll get you your normal café au lait in a moment!" She ducked back behind the machine, then emerged with Monica's lemon press. "Jet's coffee will be a bit; I have to clean out the press between brewings."

Tina disappeared back behind the counter. Monica was just about to ask Bryn how she knew Kath when a slight rumble was heard outside the shop. A blue Mustang GT with white stripes pulled up at the curb.

Monica gave a knowing eye-roll as she saw the car pull up. She had been here before when Ari had done her "announce her presence" routine with her 5.0-litre engine before.

What she didn't expect was to see a largish male figure walk into the coffee shop shortly thereafter.

He sauntered over to the counter, where Tina had already emerged with Georgette's coffee.

"Here's your cov… fe… fe… Uh, hello, Mister Dustin. I, uh…" Tina's silver eyes swirled like a hurricane.

"Uh, yeah, right away." Handing Monica the coffee, she turned and went right back behind the espresso machine and began working on a drink… no, two of them.

Monica had never heard the name "Dustin" before, but for some reason he looked vaguely familiar. He turned and smiled somewhat nervously at her.

Deciding not to push anything further, she turned to Kath and Bryn – and saw the two of them staring at him.

"Uh, what's going on?" she asked, sotto voce. They said nothing as a very strange scene unfolded in front of them:

Tina handed him two cups of what looked to be coffee, black, and accepted the two fivers he hastily fished out of his pocket. Dustin – who Monica just then noticed had a passing resemblance to Buck – looked at the trio nervously before heading back out the door.

The three women looked at each other, then outside – as the Mustang roared back to life and zoomed off down Franklin Avenue.

After a second, they turned as one to look at Tina, who had a half-smile on her face. She smirked with a "huh," then turned to the trio. After a second, the reality of the situation came back into focus for her.

"Oh! OH! Sorry, I'll get yours here in a second, hold on." She then ducked back behind the espresso machine – again – and started working on their drinks.

Bryn opened her mouth to say something, but then chose not to. Kath just turned and looked at Monica.

"I… I'm not sure, but I think that was Buck's cousin… but why…" She looked back down the street.

"I have no idea, either," Monica replied.

Just then, Tina re-emerged with Kath and Bryn's drinks. She realized that the three were staring at her.

"What? You've never seen a happy centaur before?"
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"You should never run from the voices in your head. That's how you give them power." - Jin
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Re: Pair-aDate

Postby jwhouk » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:05 pm

---

"Thank you for calling Land Rover Jaguar Minneapolis, this is Brenda, may I help you?"

"Hi Brenda, it's Ari from Richer Engineering – just letting you know that Range Rover Sport you sent over for the brake upgrade is ready for pickup."

"Oh fantastic! The owner will be thrilled to hear that. We'll get someone over there to pick it up… let's see, I think Tom's available. One moment…"

Click, beep.

"Tom Myers to the showroom, Tom Myers to the showroom."

Click.

"I paged him, so he should be up here shortly. So how was that concert this weekend?"

" Let's just say, I no longer hate you for setting me up on Pair-aDate, all right?"

"Now, now, dear. I just was telling you that it worked for me – even with a busy daughter starting middle school. And I seem to recall someone agreeing it was a great idea for getting into the dating pool?"

"Yes, but after that first date, I was definitely reconsidering our friendship."

"Look, he explained the whole thing to you, right? And it worked out, right?"

"Mmm. Tell your lot jockey we'll have it out in the staging area."

"Wait a minute – you didn't dump him after the concert, did you?"

"What? No! NO! We just spent the weekend together, that's all."

"Ah HA! See! You got a little something… oh, hey, Tom, that Range Rover Sport is ready over at RE for pickup. (Indistinct mumbling) Well, it's not that far, and you know it. Take the 90 if you have to, it needs to be looked at."

"Oh, now, don't foist that thing on us again. We've already plugged about three oil leaks on that thing. Where do you guys drive that thing, Valleyfair?"

"More like 394. They're still working on the resurfacing of that damned freeway. So – you had a good time at the concert. This is where I say, 'I told you so.'"

"SIGH. Okay, you were right. But that does NOT mean I'm about to go out with you and Scarlet on that Haunted Minneapolis tour."

"She's already over that. Something her and a couple of classmates have cooked up, but she's not telling me – mostly because she thinks I won't understand."

"Well, she is a 'tween,' right?"

"Ugh, don't remind me. Hey, gotta run, have a customer here waiting for me. Take care, hon!"

"Thanks again, Brenda."

EDIT: I hate when Pablo retroactively names characters...
Last edited by jwhouk on Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"You should never run from the voices in your head. That's how you give them power." - Jin
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